October 27, 2006
Public School Cell Phone Rules Disparity
NY1 has a good look at the differing rules for cell phone use at two very different public schools in the Bronx. One is DeWitt Clinton High School, where classes are frequently overcrowded and there are metal detectors at the entrance. The other is Bronx High School of Science, the magnet school whose has seven Nobel Prize-winning (in physics) graduates.
Current Department of Education rules say that students are not allowed to bring cell phones to school and that if they are found, they will be confiscated. As the DeWitt students are screened, cellphones are taken away leading many to leave them at a bodega which charges $1 for cell phone baby-sitting. But Bronx Science students aren't screened upon entering, so many get to keep their phones and use them through out the day. Here are some quotes students gave NY1's Michael Meenan:
- "Science kids are stuck up,” said Gustavo Marte, a student at DeWitt Clinton. “They get whatever they want. They're lucky."The Department of Education claims that when cell phones are found on Bronx Science students, they are taken away, but that seems to happen rarely. The only thing missing from the story: Whether or not Bronx Science kids are beat up by the DeWitt kids? (The Washington Irving High School kids would beat up Stuy kids when Stuy was on East 15th Street.)- "Our school is on a different level than most public schools because we are considered one of the elite schools, public schools of New York City," said Bronx Science student, Mercedes Estevez.
-"I am totally against those guys over there,” said Juan Jose Reyes in regards to the Bronx Science students. “Because having a cell phone is a big privilege."
- "I don't think cells are used for gang violence,” said Flavia Vehbiu, a Bronx Science student. “That just sounds really ridiculous."
- "During bathroom we'll [call on our cell phones and] be like, 'Hey come to the bathroom,'" said Bronx Science student Jungjoo Park of another use of the cell phone.
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that's true, I remember we had a class outdoors and fights would start. it's a shame most Stuy kid's just either ran or got beaten up. some fought back.
those were the days of homemade nunchuks made out of some eyelet screws and rods made of lucite. pretty kool.
"Our school is on a different level than most public schools because we are considered one of the elite schools, public schools of New York City,"
Jeaz... talk about Elitism
i teach at dewitt clinton (colloquial term: clinton, not dewitt) and there's very little interaction between the two schools. i've certainly never heard of a fight between the two groups.
"Jeaz... talk about Elitism"
well, isn't it?
i was under the impression it's one of the more remarkable high schools in the united states. i may be wrong on that, of course.
lord knows we could use some elite science grads at this point.
The science kids DESERVE the "elitism" thay have worked hard and have proven they are intrested in furthering their education not screwing around chatting away on their phones.
hey kojak, its elitism because those kids are elite. they pass an entrance exam and are better and brighter than the ghetto dewitt clinton kids. don't be pissy because you weren't smart enough to go to a magnet (code word for elite) school.
I'm sorry, that's not elitism. When you've worked as hard as those kids to get in, you deserve some extra perks. Nobody stopped those Clinton kids from applying and getting in. The science schools are one of the few remaining instances of meritocracy in this city.
Well, the student was right, Bronx Science is a special school. That's not being elitist; it's being honest. There's a special admission procedure and the kids that attend are arguably among the brightest in the country, in terms of SAT scores, Intel Talent Search results, etc.
In addition, kids travel to Bronx Science/Stuyvesant from great distances. If my kid is spending two and a half hours one way commuting to school, you'd better believe they're going to have a cell phone to stay in touch in case of an emergency or problem. Perhaps the staff at Bronx Science is sensitive to this.
And there are no metal detectors at Science? Well, perhaps the kids who go there have more respect for their school and don't cause problems that would warrant metal detectors.
Nobody is saying that these schools aren't excellent - I think Kojak is simply pointing out that the kid's comment is pretty obnoxious.
Well, the student was right, Bronx Science is a special school. That's not being elitist; it's being honest. There's a special admission procedure and the kids that attend are arguably among the brightest in the country, in terms of SAT scores, Intel Talent Search results, etc.
In addition, kids travel to Bronx Science/Stuyvesant from great distances. If my kid is spending two and a half hours one way commuting to school, you'd better believe they're going to have a cell phone to stay in touch in case of an emergency or problem. Perhaps the staff at Bronx Science is sensitive to this.
Clinton kids would come down and try to mug Science kids, but us Science kids would always gather and fuck them up.
The statement Mercedes made was pompous and bigheaded. Thats about it.
You all can get off your defensive high horses now.
"don't be pissy because you weren't smart enough to go to a magnet (code word for elite) school."
Ehh... No. I chose to stick with my zoned school as a matter of convenience, and not to mention it was a pretty good school as it is.
Besides, Brooklyn Tech is wack
Thank You Samantha.
"The science schools are one of the few remaining instances of meritocracy in this city."
Right, because there's such a level playing field when admission is based on a single examination. Was there not an article about the racial disparities at these schools in the NY Times this summer?
I don't contend for a moment that these schools aren't excellent. I do, however, contend the notion that these students should be somehow set apart as untouchable geniuses from the age of 13-ish on (younger for Hunter). It is flat-out unfair for them to be treated differently than their "lesser" neighbors right up the street.
Just because these schools are public doesn't make the comments on this thread any less obnoxious.
Eh shes got a point though, if you've ever been there for a few days you would understand, the clinton kids used to come by and just act like dicks and would end up robbing people or something like that, but lately Sci is getting to the level where any little thing and either off you go or 5 hours of detention for being late (not an exaggeration, one of the teachers actually rolled with that one). Then again I know the girl very personally and well shes the writer type, and quite a brilliant girl. But in no way is she an elitist about going there. Senior yes but elitist, not by a long shot.
Actually, "teacher_x", there are many fights between the two schools. Even when I went there (10 years ago) the Clinton kids used to come over every day and shake down those weaker students. Science even tried to contain all students on campus all day because of the large number of them being jumped as they went off campus for lunch.
However, you won't hear me say that those "elite" Science kids deserve anything different. All kids should carry a cell phone in this day and age; purely for safety reasons. Its up to the parents to look at the bills and make sure their kids aren't using them at inappropriate times. It took me just short of two hours to get to and from high school every day and I guarantee there were many risky moments I could have avoided with the help of a cell phone to call home.
Eh shes got a point though, if you've ever been there for a few days you would understand, the clinton kids used to come by and just act like well Clinton kids would and would end up robbing people or something like that, but lately Sci is getting to the level where any little thing and either off you go or 5 hours of detention for being late (not an exaggeration, one of the teachers actually rolled with that one). Then again I know the girl very personally and well shes the writer type, and quite a brilliant girl. But in no way is she an elitist about going there. Senior yes but elitist, not by a long shot.
"This comment goes to : THE PERSON WITH THE LONG NAME THAT WAS EITHER TO STUCK-UP TO USE A SCREEN NAME OR JUST TO MUCH OF A PUSSY, oH EXCUSE ME >VAGINAL OPENING
All students in public school should held to the same rules ! The educators put this rule in place for a reason you know. To get the full attention of the student body ! When I went to school I didn't have a cellphone(Nor did I need one) I ended up graduating with Third highest GPA. In my school, It wasn't because I was a nerd, It was because I wanted get go to college, Repeating the same grade wasn't the cool thing to do, & my family gave there emergency numbers to the school incase they needed to be contacted . By separating kids this way you create a void between them and the rest of the student body . We all know where that's going to go . So now what's the excuse for cellphones in school ?????
All students in public school should held to the same rules !
Not really. The metal detectors and searches in some schools are only there because those students have behaved in such a manner that they are warranted.
If Bronx Science kids have proven that they can actually attend school without hurting each other and behaving violently, why should they be punished?
As for the comment about the level playing field and admissions: actually, a single examination eliminates any possibility of favoritism or selective admission. Every student in eighth grade is informed of the test and is welcome to sit for it. The student body at Bronx Science crosses all socioconomic levels and ethnic groups. I'd say it's a lot fairer than other schools in the city that require all sorts of applications, references and interviews.
With almost 50 years of perspective since I left Science, here's a slightly different take. At least half the disparity between these kids and most of those in the neighborhood schools is deferred gratification. The regret I hear most from people my own age is, "I wish I had studied more, instead of sports and partying." Well, that's what the Science kids have going for them. They learned early.
In order to get in (pass the test) and stay in (maintain your grades), you simply don't have time to build your life around parties, sports, drugs, or gangs. You have to focus on what's important for the future. Science kids live that as teens, and it serves them well throughout their lives. And that is why, whether or not they deserve the cell phones, their having cell phones doesn't damage the reason for the cell phone rule; these kids aren't going to use them for trouble.
So, let me get this straight. Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, etc. would like to reap the *benefits* of the NYC public school system, such as paying $0 for a top-notch education, but would prefer not to bear any of the *burdens* of public schooling, such as being subjected to the same rules and regulations as other students. Interesting. No wonder the kids up the street wanted to beat the shit out of you.
Conversely, both Bronx Science and Stuy kids have to take a much heavier courseload, well beyond even the requirements for Regents Diplomas, to graduate. Clinton students don't. The uneven rule structure works both ways, you see?
The bottom line isn't that Bx Science kids feel that they are above the rules. It's that they haven't done anything to warrant being searched.
You act like a mindless barbarian and "beat the shit" out of other kids...you get searched and have to go through metal detectors. You act like a human being, respect your teachers and don't cause trouble...you don't get treated like a criminal. See the difference here?
First thing's first - that girl's comments were snotty. Whether true or not. When did humility die in our culture?
Secondly, laws and rules are generally passed in reaction to an event or to repeated egregious behavior. Rules should be different from school to school. Some kids must wear uniforms, some don't have that requirement. It is up to the principal to set the school 'culture,' and as varied as this city is, that's how it should be.
If the Bx Sci kids can follow simple cell phone rules (e.g. - turning them off during classes), then there is no need to confiscate them. Other schools have noticed that these rules are flouted, so they rightly have banned all cell phones. Abuse the policy, suffer the consequences.
I never had my cell phone confiscated at school. Maybe it was because I was never rude and answered it during class. But if I was going to travel 1 and 1/2 hours each way on the wet and cramped subway, through upper-Manhattan and the Bronx, sometimes at 11pm at night, just to go to high school...then I’m going to have my cell phone on me, end of discussion.
By the way, the article should have mentioned that Bronx Science and Dewitt Clinton are on the same block, and yet are so different.
I agree with anonymass: school culture should determine school policy.
I don't know what school Alum went to. I remember leaving school during 6th period with two of my friends. One was flossing a nextel (back when they were a really big deal), which got stolen, and some Sciencite up the block got sliced for his northface bookbag. We sure could've used some "gather and fuck them up" that day.
And most of the posts are making Science students sound like they're all nobel laureates in process, let's not take things out of proportion. Kids are kids: no matter where they come from or what school they go to they all want to have fun and the overwhelming majority want to make something of themselves. The only difference between Science and a regular high school is that Science has been given license to screen out the problem children (who for the most part are victims of circumstance and not inferior or less intelligent) that a zoned high school has to accept.
And before everyone wants to tout Science students as the best, and the brightest, and hardworking, and diligent, and adroit; when's the last time we had a laureate.....oh 50 something?
I can go on for years, but at the end of the day Mercedes Estevez smacks so much of many of the Sciencites I choose not to remember: grade seekers (not over achievers) who will sell their soul for a seat at an Ivy league and who have little to no perspective or regard for anyone who they don't consider to be just like them. I can only hope that Mercedes grows out of her myopia.
BTW: You have to be able to see that this Michael Meenan guy probably goaded these kids into these statements. We don't get the benefit of reading how the questions were asked or phrased.
And a phat shout out to Jungjoo Park for putting herself on blast so the entire internet community (including her teachers) knows who not to let go to the bathroom anymore.
LoL
"In order to get in (pass the test) and stay in (maintain your grades), you simply don't have time to build your life around parties, sports, drugs, or gangs."
Sports (won't even comment on them being lumped in with drugs and gangs)? Seriously, are students really dissuaded from playing sports at these schools? Playing sports in high school is an incredibly valuable experience for many students. I'm sure I'll get flamed by people saying that it would simply be impossible to compete athletically and maintain your grades at Stuy et al., but considering sports frivolous is short-sighted and shows zero appreciation for how playing a sport can enhance one's four years in high school. At the risk of seeming anti-intellectual, getting into the "right" college surely is important, but the physical fitness and bodily confidence that playing sports can facilitate is lifelong.
Sports is useless. Friday night lights is useless.
only losers love sports. Even sports guys know sports are useless, that's why you see Tiki barber leaving sports.
Only in america where you have more sports athletes in college than engineers. and you wonder why there's no technology advancement coming out of the US anymore. that includes medical advancements, many come from foreign pharmas.
"In order to get in (pass the test) and stay in (maintain your grades), you simply don't have time to build your life around parties, sports, drugs, or gangs."
Sports (won't even comment on them being lumped in with drugs and gangs)? Seriously, are students really dissuaded from playing sports at these schools?
Not at all! The operative phrase is "build your life around..."
I was on the swimming team at Science. I learned a lot about time discipline (be sure I still have plenty of time for study) and exercise discipline (I'm 65 now and still work out) from that. But you build your life around what your life is going to be. Watching what goes on at a local high school, I saw too many kids build their lives around sports -- as an escape from the discipline of study. That's not what school should teach, unless the kids really will become sports professionals.
BTW, that was the context behind lumping sports in with other things kids would rather do than study. Sorry for not being clearer about that. But I did say the theme was deferred gratification.
Regarding the cellphone rule at high schools, while the rule is school-system-wide, it is up to the principal, teachers and guards to enforce the rule. If they don't see enforcement is necessary (i.e., there are no disruptions in class, no gang activity, etc.), then they can choose not to enforce it rigorously.
It's the same way with speed limits. There's a statewide speed limit, but the speed limit is more heavily enforced with additional patrol cars in areas where accidents are more common.
Wow, so many comments. As a drop out of BX. Science, I can tell you that the elitist attitude begins with the teachers and administrators. From your first day at Bronx Science until your last day you will be told how special you are for being there. Guess what, IT'S TRUE. Bronx H.S. Of Science, Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech students etc., ARE BETTER! Those schools are in fact more challenging than most state and local universities in this country. That is not to say that the student body could use a little humility. Even as a drop out I found the rest of my academic career to be less challenging than my 2 years there. (I have a B.S. cum laude from a Cuny School). So stop the equality complaints and let them keep their phones. They are not the ones who are too stupid to use them during class.
As a STUDENT of the Bronx High School of Science, I am here to say that YES. They do beat up Bronx Science kids, steal their phones and mp3s and leave them there. One girl, for example, was harrased on the train by Dewitt Clinton students.
Bronx Science students are not normally elitist. One has to realize that the REPORTER picks and chooses the eprfect words from 100 people. Someone else may have said something that would not have helped him, and that quote is dumped out the window.
Also. We don't have metal detectors because we don't TRY TO KILL TEACHERS. Maybe if Dewitt CLinton student stopped bringing knives into school, there wouldn't be metal detectors.
I'm rather insulted by the article. Cellphones, although tolerated sometimes, are confiscated many other times. I have seen teachers throw cellphones from desks onto the floor for example in an attempt to break it.
Also, for the folks who don't go to bronx science, this is something I think you should know. Most, if not all, shots taken of Bronx Science had their students standing around waiting for lunch. They were not in Bronx Science property when they were talking to the guy, nor where they on the property when they were on the phone. People fail to realize that location means a lot. Students, for example, cannot use the phone in school property, but it is fine to do it around Kenny's Truck (which is where the said people were).
So before people decide to start complaining about things like this, please think about what you're saying. Most of us don't think we're elitist. Most of us dread the 2 hour sleeps after countless studying periods. An even greater amount of us do not wish to go there anymore.
Now watch me get jumped on my way home tomorrow.
Class of Party Like It's 99: Bronx Science has had Nobel laureates in 2004 and 2005. All are listed here.
When did humility die in our culture?
With the rise of hip-hop.
Only in america where you have more sports athletes in college than engineers. and you wonder why there's no technology advancement coming out of the US anymore.
China has more scientists and engineers in college than any country in the world. When is the last time China invented something to make the world a better place?
Are you even kidding me?!?!? Trust me...a lot of us students here DO think we're elitists. I'm not justifying it. But it comes with automatically, being in this school. So..we are a bit snobby. And also, to those people who said that bronx science students actually want to do well and go to college, unlike Clinton kids, well you need to shut up and stop being judgemental becuz you haven't even considered the circumstances that Clinton kids are in and financial statuses and you won't even believe how many bronx science students SLACK OFF like crazy and DON'T CARE. Guidance Counselors just convince the "bad"/"failing" ones to leave the school and then...the school can maintain it's extremely high grad rate.