October 5, 2006
Minutemen Insanity at Columbia
Protest is alive and well at Columbia, though it's still a far cry from 1968. Yesterday evening, Jim Gilchrist, head of the Minutemen, the "citizens' vigilance operation" that patrols the Mexican border in California, was invited to speak at Columbia University. But pretty much as soon as he got on stage, a group of student got on stage and protested - and then all hell broke loose. The Bwog liveblogged the event, and here's an excerpt:
Finally the Minuteman himself enters. "Now who're you calling racist?" he shouts, putting his arm around [Minutemen boardmember Marvin] Stewart, who is black. "I love the First Amendment. As soon as you graduate, you'll all be investment bankers. I've been where you at. I know you hate yourselves."Now, although initial reports were that Columbia's Chicano Caucus was behind the on-stage protest, they denied any responsibility (clarifying that they did organize the one outside the hall) for the "actions that led to the termination of the event." And they support free speech. The Columbia Spectator reports that students from the International Socialist Organization were behind the stage rush, and the Bwog had this statement from "Those who occupied the stage":Update 9:00 pm: BWOG IS SHOCKED. STUDENTS WITH A BIG YELLOW SIGN JUST CAME ONTO THE STAGE. The sign says, "There are no illegals." Students rise en masse from the audience and rush the stage. The Minuteman and the students engaged in a tug of war with the banner. More people rush the stage, prompting a fist-fight. One female student is kicked in the head. A guy in a pony tail (definitely not a student) rushes the stage and fights with students (several witnesses saw him kick a student) and then banded together with the Minuteman to shout the pledge of allegiance as the rumble spun out of hand, "One nation! Under God! Indivisible!"
There was at least two minutes of chaos between students, other students and the Minutemen. Bwog took cover.
security Update: 9:01 pm: Security comes out, now the curtain is down. Students are still chanting, now everyone's filing out.
Update: 9:15 pm: Students outside shouting, "They say, 'get bent,' we say, 'let's fight!'"
We celebrate free speech: for that reason we allowed the Minutemen to speak, and for that same reason we peacefully occupied the stage and spoke ourselves. Our peaceful protest was violently attacked by members of the College Republicans and their supporters, who are the very same people who invited the Minutemen to our campus in the first place. The Minutemen are not a legitimate voice in the debate on immigration. They are a racist, armed militia who have declared open hunting season on immigrants, causing countless hate crimes and over 3000 deaths on the border. Why should exploitative corporations have free passes between nations, but individual people not? No human being is illegal.The president of Columbia's College Republicans, junior Chris Kulawik, told the Daily News, "It was quite embarrassing as a Columbia student."
CTV News has video footage:
Photographs from the Bwog
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If only people could keep up some kind-of indignation and energy after they graduate. But, they get their advertising jobs or they go to law school, and everyone pretty much forgets about their crazy ProTesTing DaZe, which were just an excuse to meet chicks anyway.
Another case of immature college students who apparently believe "my right to free speech trumps your right to free speech."
Hey, they didn't show that last night on the news.
All they mentioned was the Minutemen were invited by the Columbia university republican club.
And, who were the pledge of allegience chanters? the minutemen supporters, I assume.
Damn, that action is the juice.
fwaefawef got it so right. Back in my day the issue was South African divestment. We built shantytowns, had die-ins, forced the college to divest. Then some of those same protestors put on their suits, went off to the big city, and got jobs with Solomon Brothers and Merrill Lynch, etc., organizations that probably weren't on the divestment bandwagon.
I was there. The first guy was racist for a while (amazing cause hes black) then he was just plain boring and stupid. He quoted the bible, the constitution and the California constitution (?) until finally he was shouted off the stage mainly for his stupidity and dullness factor.
The rushing of the stage was seemingly spontaneous, and quite fast. Seeing the republicans up there with ugly faces trying to rip the banners out of the activists hands was fun. Glad it happened early cause we were sick of hearing stupidity.
No word yet if anyone was held or charged with anything, no cops inside, just CU security.
"We celebrate free speech: for that reason we allowed the Minutemen to speak, and for that same reason we peacefully occupied the stage and spoke ourselves."
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
holy shit guys, c'mon. the minutemen are ridiculous, but helping them feel like martyrs is even more counterproductive.
emotionally satisfying, however, sure.
So, what you guys are saying is, you go to these things to pick up girls and kick heads.
Sort of a fantasy for men, isn't it?
Why would anyone want to be a college republican in a liberal college? It's like being a nazi at a hasidic village. It's like you are just being there to piss other people off and not only that but being around liberals would probably just piss you off more. so you have this sado masoschistic relationship with your ideology. sad.
clearly!
free speech is a popular rhetorical idea, but in practice, it tends to piss nearly everyone off. resulting in the interesting twists and turns like this:
"The Minutemen are not a legitimate voice in the debate on immigration."
but they believe in free speech. just not, you know, free speech from people they disagree with.
"We celebrate free speech: for that reason we allowed the Minutemen to speak, and for that same reason we peacefully occupied the stage and spoke ourselves."
This has got to be one of the most stupid things I've ever read.
Also, where do they get the "causing 3000 deaths" part? Factual backup, anywhere?
by the way, i wonder how those kids will feel in 20 years when they are paying higher taxes than we do now for less benefit. it won't be just the fault of illegals, but they'll definitely be compounding the issue. especially by running down the hospitals and schools. maybe if those kids are lucky some homeless illegals will even set up camp a few hundred feet from their house under the highway or along the train tracks. already happened to me.
Hey jj, my nephew is a conservative Republican and he attends Columbia. Why? Because he has a right to select the college that will give him the best education in the city in which he grew up. Once there he also has the right to associate with other like minded individuals. He should also be able to learn or dialogue with others who think differently (At a college? What a concept!). The one thing he should not fear is intimidation by leftists thugs who only want "clean thoughts" on their campus.
BTW, for what it's worth, we are Hispanic.
This protest seems more like an opposition to the College Republicans who invited the Minuteman - than to the Minutemen themselves. These Republicans enable the corporate agenda in this country - and allow Bush and Co. to devour the planet...they actually help them to do it (while chanting God Bless America). So it is with them that we start our revolt. Then we move up the ladder.
Their policies are violent - the least we can do as human beings is rush the stage eh?
Bravo Columbia! Wish I was there.
"It's like you are just being there to piss other people off"
that's a little weird. love it or leave it? that's bullshit hawk post 9/11 reasoning, dude.
it is a strange world we live in where political disagreements are seen as direct antagonism.
or are translated into direct antagonism, as with the above. the socialists had to realize on some level they were being set up to act like authoritarian hooligans - which even if they are, they should realize is bad PR - but couldn't restrain themselves from the thrill of the fight? i'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say their passions overwhelmed their senses rather than believing they really do think they were somehow supporting free speech.
Given the predatory nature of our predatory species -- black participation in the anti illegal immigration problem is ... racially motivated.
So, why not hug a white guy who is promoting the ethnic interests of black people too?
How many stories can you read of blacks facing increased competition from Chicanos for working class jobs, being pushed out of formerly black neigborhoods, and engaging in ethnic conflict with Chicanos in public schools?
So, are there white Gentiles who want to end illegal immigration for ethnically motivated reasons? -- racists? While blacks -- as well as all Jews and nonwhites in America -- could openly say they oppose amnesty, or illegal immigration, because these things specifically harm their race, (in other words, for ethnically motivated reasons) -- white Gentiles can only promote or oppose something strictly for universal reasons.
Why?
Given that our species is predatory, by nature, discrimination is normal. Races that see themselves as a sovereign people, an alpha race, will be racially conscious and will openly promote the ethnic interests of their people.
In America, Jews and nonwhites are encouraged to be racially conscious, to organize along racial lines, appoint racially defined leaders, and to openly promote the ethnic interests of their people.
They are acting as alpha races, sovereign races.
White Gentiles, though, fear being seen as racially conscious and are terrified to be seen as racially aggressive. They are the typical beta race, or beta tribe. As such, when tribal aggression is shown by a white Gentile he must figuratively "roll over and expose his vitals" for Jews and nonwhites. This is the age old behavior between alpha races and beta races.
So, its very possible that some white Gentiles in the minutemen have the same motivation that any Jew or nonwhite would have -- ethnic motivation.
But I would imagine -- given the racially emasculated state of just about all whites -- that just about all whites involved are doing so for universal reasons.
Exactly, fishtale. Their behavior and intolerance is a direct result of the entitlement society they live in, and because of the unconscious guilt they carry around it comes out in the most twisted ways.
As for being a Republican student at Columbia, good for them... all the rest of those kids hear is the same baaaaa-ing, and that's one of the main reasons we don't even have a functional democracy anymore. Critical thinking is in a coma, points of views are replaced by "talking points".
As a graduate of Brown University, I am well aware of the intimidation tactics and Orwellian speech employed by many "activist" groups at liberal colleges. It is instances like this one at Columbia that actually made me far more conservative after my four years of college than before (I grew up in the South, mind you). Conservative groups on campus were actually far more open to dialogue than the supposed "liberal" groups, most of which relied on naive freshman to shout slogans and interrupt speakers of opposing viewpoints with the most outrageous accusations imaginable. Perhaps the Conservatives were forced to be more open to debate because of their minority status. In any case, yes, most of these kids won't give a rat's ass once they graduate and move on to ibanking, consulting, or law.
An emarassment to liberalism....sigh
what what what whaa?
The division has only grown larger in the past decade or so.
Can we please get back to Mark Foley and his search for young boys and rulers for measurement tools?
Can we all agree thats its time for Gothamist to change its name to Columbiaist?
hey Matt, to change your political ideology because of the 'tactics' of some activists is ridiculous.
Do you now support union busting, unending war, RFID chips for everyone, environmental destruction, government giveaways to oil companies, torture!!!
You are supprting the conservatives because you didn't like the activits hair and tattoos?
One has nothing to do with the other.
Strong ideas require action to get them done. The Republicans understand this, Rove has broken every law in the book to get his boys in power. And you act like its the liberal activists at fault.
Get real. And I suugest staying out of this fight man - you will get eaten alive.
As much as I dislikethe "Minutemen", IMO, rushing the Stage isn't protest; It's acting like thugs.
But wait... was it the Republicans who rushed the stage after the protestors went up there? I'm a bit confused on who did the "rushing"...
"Get real. And I suugest staying out of this fight man - you will get eaten alive."
uh, not to kick you off your horse - since you're clearly happy there - but you'll notice none of these folks are going down to the border where the minutemen do their (ridiculous, misinformed, counterproductive and thoroughly stupid) routine. perhaps because, well, they have guns there?
i mean, great, they're very tough people to rush a stage. aside from like, totally blowing my mind - and no doubt feeding their emotional desires - it did nothing but make them look like assholes. which, had they let the minutemen speak, those closed-border numbnuts could have done for themselves.
rushing a stage is a hell of a lot better than rushing a border armed to the teeth intent on shooting to kill!!!
free speech? at least gilchrist got 3 minutes. that is a lot more time that he and his band of thugs will allow any so-called "illegal" to live.....
by they way, from what i have read and heard direct from those who were there, the minutemen could barely sustain an intelligable presentation except rant and quote the bible. this is a major university not some freakin' bible or community college!
"Yada", your proving my point.
Riddle me this:
IMO, Mr. Gilchrist is a Radical Wacko (Who may have been armed, BTW) and all those protesters did was One Up him on Wackiness.
i wish i would have been there just so i could have kicked someboyd in the head. doesn't really matter which side, im a non-partisan headkicker.
but as someone asked earlier, can we please have proof about these 3000 deaths?
"IMO, Mr. Gilchrist is a Radical Wacko (Who may have been armed, BTW)"
in new york city?
oh c'mon.
i'm a big open borders person, and i think these guys are jackasses, but this is just plain stupid.
The fight wasn't started by students. Go watch the tape. The students were standing and shouting, and the Minutemen are throwing punches and kicks and tearing stuff down. Whatever.
Two minutes of chaos.
back in my day...
Although this is the most respect I've had for Columbia students for...uh, ever.
Rocknroll! Let college protest season begin!
They will likely mirror the war and become more violent until the end.
I am convinced there are really only a handful of Republicans in this country, all going by millions of assumed screen names...
Hi Jason,
Thanks for putting a lot of words in my mouth. I never said I was anti-union or any of the other ludicrous accusations you threw at me. Perhaps I wasn't entirely clear in my message, but the tactics that leftists use to support their cause disgust me but were not the reason I have changed my political idealogy.
These days I actually consider myself moderate, which to many students at schools like Columbia and Brown appears borderline facist right wing. I support gay marriage. I don't support affirmative action (the only legal "insitutionalized racism"- favorite buzzword of the left- that exists today in the U.S.A). I was against us going to war in Iraq and am horrified at the mess that has resulted. I think Blacks are hurt a lot more by the victim ideaology the left teaches them than by "white privilege."
Oh, and I'm sure I would be much more offended by your ideas than by your hair or tattoos.
people need to stop behaving...
you want to shake the trees of power? - STOP BEHAVING. you think they look like wackos? I think its wacko to sit as a desk and watch the world burn on the internet...
its a bathroom, not a gas chamber...don't worry just stay quiet and keep moving
the earth is not dying, the republicans are not killing it, don't worry just behave and keep consuming
what a liar zach. i was there. the minutmen's supporters were on the front right. the first thing that happened was two student came from the back stage w/a poster (where was security?). Then students broke throuugh the rope and came up through the front left. The video clearly indicates this. Then another wave ran up before security could do anything. All of this appeared to be coordinated by two old women who were moving to the front.
You're a liar, apologist and jerk zach.
"you want to shake the trees of power? - STOP BEHAVING. you think they look like wackos? I think its wacko to sit as a desk and watch the world burn on the internet..."
and so it goes.
its pretty obvious that some guy in a baseball cap started the physical altercations - he came from the front right
just watch the tape
however i dont care who started the altercation, as long as the minutemen are taken down
Looked to me that the Students started the altercation by rushing the stage.
"people need to stop behaving..."?
Jason, it depends on how far people misbehave. They could have had the same results by staying of the stage and shouting him down standing from the seats.
Instead, the students look like the agressor here.
Moderates are republicans who choose to throw-away a portion of their beliefs about issues that have no importance to promote crucial issues with misinformation. I'm not saying gay marriage is unimportant, I'm saying that it's claerly riduculous that two people who love eachother can't get married and I refuse to discuss it further. It's smokescreen for issues that epublicans want to fast track to the right, like a right to abortion.
Jason- the Boston Holocaust Monument has a great quote that reminds me of your comment. When will all the average joe's in our country realize that whatever you want to call, it will one day come for them, too?
I think dirty mexicans rushed the stage more than lefty liberals. OR most likely dirty mexican lefties.
free speech is wack! yeah! yay!
nothing worse than sheltered idealistic liberal arts school retards.
hr... wow... Could your post include more code words for Socialistic Anarchistic Art-loving Educated Elites?
Or you could have just said Democrats. I guess lumping all those words together to form an incomplete sentence was too taxing, eh?
The discourse (and I hate that word) in this country about this and a host of other subjects is really getting to the point of insanity. We can't even talk with one another without name calling and fingerpointing... and yes, I'm guilty of it, too.
Oy. We're in for some bad times ahead.
elerta:
no, YOU'RE a towel.
Hey hr... uh... oh... I would respond if only I could understand what you meant. And who's elerta?
Like Matt, I went to Brown, too.. and I also feel like I became more conservative while there because of the zany leftist tactics and ideas of the politically active there.
When any conservative writer, scholar, politician, supreme court justice, pundit came to campus, their speeches were inevitably disrupted by noise, boos and publicity stunts. It made me feel, there must be something in what the conservatives were saying, if these "activists" feared the idea even expressed aloud.
Don't even get me started with the smarmy attitude of 19 y/o students who have taken 2 political science courses during Q/A talking down to people who have made lifetime careers in academia, politics or the law. Disagree with them, yes... but show some respect.
oohh... wait... I'm a wet towel! Whew... that took a while.
S.D.
I agree that the students were aggressive, or the aggressors or whatever...
That's a very positive thing.
Aggression is the only way to get anything done. Just ask Karl Rove, just ask the Minutemen. They are all heavily armed and patrolling the border down south - that seems pretty aggressive to me? And they made international headlines and now they are getting their precious 700 mile fence.
Be Aggressive. Scare them. Force their hands.
When are people going to learn that when you want something - you do not take NO for an answer. I ahve seen some protest in France that would make you shit your pants by the way.
If our government (and their corporate collaborators) doesn't fear us, then we are not doing our job. Don't you fear your boss? Isn't that how the work gets done around the office?
Now I only wish that this energy was directed toward people who drive cars and pollute all day long...then we will be getting somewhere.
Anyone who's been to college in the last 20 years has to admit that there's a certain level of brown shirt-style fascism on campuses. I'm not yanking that F-word out my bag reflexively. When I read that German author Gunther Grasse joined the SS when he was a teenager, I wasn't surprised at all. Kids are passionate, have essentially no responsibilities, and very little life experience from which to draw moderate frames of reference. Kids are volatile and true believers to whatever passion they've recently attached themselves to. In their minds, the justness of their cause absolves them of any ridiculousness. In adults, that's characterized as mania. In young adults, that's characterized as being a college student--left, right or center.
"Be Aggressive. Scare them. Force their hands."
and when are you heading to the border, my little chickadee? go scare them! c'mon! you can do it! go force their hands!
c'mon! you can do it!
MattMichael-
Why is that people feel having any amount of experience within a flawed institution via academia, law, or politics consitutes some amount of validity in the points they make?
Respect. There needs to be more respect for real dissent very soon on the topics of war, immigration, and poverty in this country and throughout the world. All three of the above are unwanted side affects of spreading democracy.
I certainly did not take that perspective from participating in the political process of our country, although I do that too.
The People* are starting to not only turn-off to the propaganda, but I think a lot of people (this serving as an example) are starting to feel the need to say 'SHUT THE FUCK UP!' Especially the college kids...
*I do not include you in the term 'The People', as you are clearly either a cog in the machine or a computer program created by Republicans to post right-slanted automated responses on this page.
actually, i apologize, jason.
i didn't realize you were an artist.
"Don't even get me started with the smarmy attitude of 19 y/o students who have taken 2 political science courses during Q/A talking down to people who have made lifetime careers in academia, politics or the law. Disagree with them, yes... but show some respect."
You're right. I've never once seen somebody conservative do something like that.
"*I do not include you in the term 'The People', as you are clearly either a cog in the machine or a computer program created by Republicans to post right-slanted automated responses on this page."
so you don't see manichean thinking - which dominates the public airwaves and public discourse to an alarming degree - is part of the problem of public policy? look at all the bush style war on terror language - it is all good versus evil writ large, and nothing even remotely approaching nuance.
i mean, look at the responses here. there are plenty of them, but most revolve around "fuck principles, these guys are assholes" which is great so long as you're willing to accept the opposite. but i doubt anyone actually is.
revenge fantasies are great - in movies and video games. they are not such a great mode of interaction with your fellow citizens.
or maybe it is the right thing to do, and i misunderstand entirely. i know we're just talking about kids here, but from a strictly strategic point of view, what is the fruit of jason's policy recommendations here? attack a fringe group like the minutemen with violence and what is the result? the net change? nothing. are these guys in power? no. they're just schmoes, misguided and politically challenged.
but hey, emotional satisfaction before all else, right?
While it's generally true that college kids trumpet idealism while lacking 'real world experience,' (where 'real world experience' = the kinds of inane, unimaginative soundbytes spewed by countless politicians on Meet the Press every Sunday morning), I'll take the idealism thank-you-very-much.
It's not like today's college students are any more polarized than, say, those who regularly watch Fox News.
i think the right wing loves the fact that a bunch of pacifists are their opposition - thats a guarantee that they will always be in power
to repsond to dhex -
i do not have any particular policy recommendation except that we cannot be scared to act out..in fact its the only thing that shakes things up.
and what is the sense in having priciples if you are going to let people walk all over them dhex?
what is your definition of fighting back? mine is changing all the time, but it is NOT playing nice...i think the students last night are onto something...lets debate how to take their baton and keep charging on.
dhex said
"attack a fringe group like the minutemen with violence and what is the result? the net change? nothing. are these guys in power? no. they're just schmoes, misguided and politically challenged"
they are not in power - but THEIR VIOLENCE got congress to agree to erect a 700 mile fence
so they carry guns, talk a big game - and they get results...
we make blogs, write to our stupid newspapers, play nice - and get nothing...
when will we figure out that we need to get much much more aggressive?
rebuttal anyone?
These guys are absolutely in charge of shaping public opinion, which, if you have not been paying attention for the last 6 years, is what decides elections. Clearly not logic.
Politicians are too busy raising cash.
The People are idiots on the average, and the concept of nuance does not exist in their concrete world. I'm fine with that and I still love em for it. But that changes my approach to hammering some of my thoughts through their thick little skulls.
Revenge is defense and for pussies who should have spoken up the first time and now regret that they didn't. This was not revenge. This was offense. Which is the side of ball the Dems need to get on if they think anybody who considers themselves liberal will vote for their candidate.
It seems to be assumed that liberals are, by default, pacifists at heart. When conservatives deploy their nasty tactics, we're expected to just sit back and "take the high road." Conservative commentators' bile is a given, yet when some liberals give them a taste of their own medicine they can't deal.
I'm amused at all the conservative whiners attending liberal colleges; now you know what it's like to grow up in a small flyover community. :) Deal with it, and eventually you'll be out of there.
samantha t-
I can cite plenty of instances where conservatives deliberately disrupted speakers whose positions they disagreed with.
Perhaps you tend not to notice it because it doesn't take the form of students jumping on to a stage. Instead it usually manifests itself in government fear-mongering (the public intolerance of dissent in the aftermath of 9/11) and marginalization of dissenting voices by the mainstream media, which (up until very recently) tends to toe the official line and which at the least is owned by major corporations, which tend not to foster free, critical debate.