September 15, 2006
Uh Oh, Toys R Us Goes Up Against Breastfeeding Moms
Is Toys 'R Us right to not want to be Ta-Tas 'R Us? Or should they be more forgiving of their customers who are feeding future customers? Or is everyone crying over unspilt milk? A Brooklyn mother claims she was harassed by three or four female store employees when she breast fed her 7 month old son at the Times Square Toys 'R' Us on Monday. Chelsi Meyerson says she went to an "out of the way" place to nurse son Mason, but soon after, a store employee said, "You have to go down to the basement to do that." More employees appeared to tell Meyerson she had to move because there were "children around," and then the store's security was called in. Now, Meyerson has called in the New York Civil Liberties Union, which has asked the toy retailer for an apology and "appropriate compensation," as NY State civil rights law permits women the right to breast-feed wherever they like.
Toys 'R' Us claims they simply asked Meyerson if she would be more comfortable in a private area (they have one specifically for breastfeeding moms) and deny that security was called. The store manager told the Daily News, "We take this opportunity to reaffirm our commitment to nursing moms." But they didn't realize that Meyerson's mother is apparently a "high-ranking official" in La Leche League, a breast feeding support group!
Who do you believe, the mom or the store? In our experience, breastfeeding moms generally try to be discreet about breastfeeding - even if they are in a very public place - so it's not terribly awkward. And you can read the letter the NYCLU sent to Toys 'R' Us here (PDF).
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Doesn't it seem possible, given her connection to La Leche, that she made a scene on purpose? This smells like a publicity stunt.
Even so, if our culture wasn't so scandalized by the sort-of appearance of a breast in public, this wouldn't be a problem.
Whatever happened to discretion in this country? If you have nowhere else to go it's understandable but why flaunt it? It's bad enough that the Park Slope mommies bring their rug rats everywhere - like bars.
Another reason to get rid of the smoking ban - there has to be somewhere to go to get away from these people.
It isn't that people are necessarily scandalized by it. We just don't want to see people perfoming bodily functions. We don't pick our noses in public, do we?
Feeding a child in public shouldn't be a big deal. This woman should get an apology, probably, but financial compensation? Come on.
people pick their noses in public all the time, wether we like it or not, and I've never seen anyone given shit for it, just bad looks.
It depends on whose story you believe. If it's hers, then Toys R Us sucks as, regardless of what affilation she may have. If it's Toys R Us, then it's great that they have a designated place for it.
But it's a toy store, with many parents and kids where alot of them were probably breastfeed themselves, so it's almost a double standard. Breastfeeding is natural and normal. American's are just too friggen up tight. Anywhere else in the world there wouldn't have been a stink, but this is a country where people flip at the slightest bit of nippple, we're too sheltered.
And if you've seen women breasfeeding, its never full out boob in your face, so you should put those comments aside. Most mothers are very descrete, with a towel over themselves and their baby.
Take Toys R' US' money and get yourself a blanket to cover your tatas while feeding your spawn and shopping.
While you are entitled to your opinion, breastfeeding is not really in the nose picking or bodily function category. It is a baby being fed. It is necessary for the health of the child, and often must be done every couple hours. That being said, it becomes very difficult to NOT do it in public without becoming a shut-in.
Also, most women nurse so discretely that no breast is really showing; if something does show it is for a quick second. As for "why flaunt it?" - well, because we can. The ability to not only gestate and birth a child, but to then nurish him as well is something of which to be proud. So, get your mind out of the gutter and appreciate the beauty of it. Or, here's a thought, look away.
So like she never heard of pumping before going out? like don't they sell those devices in the stores?
I agree with Austin, this seems like it may be a publicity stunt. Even if it's not, what the hell is "appropriate compensation"?
The security tapes will clear this up. It's that easy.
Seriously, enough with the "American's are uptight" crap. This country has far more cultures mixed together than any European country. Someone is always going to be bothered by something. Sometimes we have to bend to the least offensive standard. What if there are parents with kids at Toys R Us and the kids starts asking daddy why that woman is taking her shirt off? Maybe the parent doesn't want to have to have this discussion with a four year old in the middle of the store.
As for the nose picking, you can sit in judgement of someone picking their nose but nobody can dare sit in judgement of breastfeeding?
Breastfeeding in public is disgusting and barbaric. Hasn't this woman heard of a breast pump! Or better yet, baby formula.
If there is a place set aside for breast feeding, nursing mothers should use it. I think this woman is flaunting it for a cause because her mother is a high official of Le Leche League.
Wow, the commenters at Gothamist never cease to amaze...
Wow, I guess these comments reflect the fruit of the loins of thoudsands of God-Fearing Fundie Children from Nowhere Towns.
How proud they must be.....
Why would anybody be in favor of less breasts being shown in public? Bring it on, I say.
Seriously, this is a mother nursing her baby. End of story. It's no big deal. Even a four-year old is capable of understanding that.
*sigh*
Everyone saying "just use a breastpump before you go out!" is just ignorant of how nursing works. Trust me when I say that it's a bad idea for a mom to do this on several levels- bad for supply, possible nipple confusion...
Plus, it's a pain in the ass, and why should moms *have* to pump and bottlefeed in public? It's just a baby eating.
while its her right to feed in public, i suppose if she knew that she were going to a toy store where children likely outnumber adults, i think discretion would have been appropriate. even though she's feeding, she still has her tit out. if they offered her the opportunity to nurse in a designated area, she should have taken them up on it, and not thrown a hissy fit.
Given the usual level of "customer service" in this city, I have no trouble believing that store employees did a very poor job communicating with this woman and were, more than likely, downright rude.
"possible nipple confusion"
At last, my new band has a name.
Pumping isn't always an option, and it's disingenuous to imply it is.
The La Leche League leave the impression of zealots who've hijacked a point worthy of much discussion. Some LLL members' rhetoric remind me of the way *some* lesbians with identity issues treat bisexual women.
We're not being 'sheltered' when the sight of Janet Jackson's nipple instigates Congressional hearings. We're being told how to talk and behave. It's a process of control.
People are way too eager to let others think they're outraged by mommas and their lactating boobies.
Publicity stunt or no, suing for compensation always gets more attention than just suing for an apology. What does -that- say about us?
Children are not shamed by breasts if it is treated naturally. It is not the natural condition of human beings to be shamed by the nakedness of others. That's something we bring about culturally. If breast feeding is explained to children they will think nothing of it. They will just be curious.
neil.....THANK YOU!!!
Another note:
Everyone is missing the fact that three employees harrassed the woman.
What happened to customer service. What kind of customer service is that? The employees need to be retrained.
THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT....!!!
If the Emperor is naked....we don't need the comon lowly staff to tell the King his business. Treat customers like gold and...with the highest respect. Let a manager handle situations that could potentially damage the integrity of the store. If handled wrong, the situation could cause a decline in business. When you rent on Time Square, you need all the good business you can get. That business is mothers and fathers with children and grandchildren. Aunts, Uncles, relatives, friends...etc...etal... Especially, new born children. Expectant mothers register at Toys R Us for shower gifts. It is big business.
Toy R Us should have had a manager escort the woman to a more appropriate place to breast feed.
If breast feeding offends some people...no matter how ok it is, give her an area to breast feed. You can not force people to accept public breast feeding. Although she is discrete, it still makes many uncomfortable.
It is no different then smoking in public building. It is now only appropriate to smoke outside and the only "legal" place. Smokers are not bothered by smoke but "some" non-smokers are. Therefore, they were moved outside. Or some place still have a smoking lounge.
"There are children around."
That's a good one. I guess it doesn't occur to this minimum wage sales clerk that it's us adults that have sexually stigmatized breasts. Children don't give a rat's ass.
As for the boob (pun intended) who asked "whatever happened to discretion" above, the article did say she went to an out of the way place.
Finally, for the other boob who claims it's a bodily function, well, so it is. But it's not elimination. It's consumption. "What's next?" Maybe people eating and drinking in public. Oh, the horror! My eyes, my eyes! Can we ever survive that?
mh is right, breastfeeding is a lot like smoking. Just as secondhand smoke endangers other people indoors, a breastfeeding mother's milk might squirt out of control and possibly drown a poor, innocent child.
If there was a designated breast-feeding area then she should have used it. Children's love or fear of breasts is irrelevant. The burden was on her to decipher the store employees' efforts to communicate that a breast-feeding area existed. The employees are hired based on their willingness to wear a smock and get paid poorly not their communication skills. It's clear that she has a breast, er, axe to grind.
mh-
The customer is always right:
"She said the mother was approached just once by a store employee who, *in response to customer complaints* about the breast-feeding,"
Which customer are you referring to?
Stupid publicity whore.
Brightliner:
It funny that she says she was in an out of the way place in one sentence, then claims they were there within 30 seconds of starting the feeding. Seems it would be difficult to rectify both statements.
Agreed, "there are children around" is a moronic objection. (If your child did indeed ask "why is that woman taking her shirt off" - even though that is not how a child would actually interpret the sight in real life since nobody actually disrobes to nurse - just freakin' explain it to them.)
I have to say that the tale rings true, seems quite likely to have happened the way the woman describes it. TRS should publicly apologize.
Toys R us will lose, did you see the mother's cute little daughter on TV? (they were celebrating her birthday)
Put her on the stand vs. TRU and we'll see who's gonna win. That and the LAW states mothers can breast feed.
HA HA, you uptight suckas.
If this women was rudely treated by one or more Toys R Us employees, then by all means she deserves an apology. It's not unthinkable, though, that simply by an employee pointing out that there is a designated area for breast-feeding and suggesting that the woman go there, she may have felt "badly treated." I personally don't think most little kids will notice/care much about a woman breast-feeding with discretion, and they'll be content with a short answer: "She's feeding her baby."
HOWEVER, even as a woman, I personally find it a bit disgusting to see breast-feeding in public. I was catching a quick bite at a Whole Foods and a woman was unabashedly breast-feeding in the sit-down eating area. Yes, I realize the baby was eating, too, but Whole Foods being as it is I had to take the first available seat, which put my line of vision right at this woman's saggy side-boob and her baby chomping away. Ugh.
Bottom line: breast-feed in the bathroom, ladies lounge, etc. if at all possible. At least make it seem like you've made an effort. Kids are lot of work, no one ever said they aren't. Ladies, having a baby WILL change your lifestyle, you can't just keep being an urban sophisticate the same as you were before but this time with another person latched on your chest here, there, and anywhere. Not appropriate.
Brightliner: Some people do eat like they were raised in a cave. It may not be a bad idea to have some people eat in the pitch dark.
Do any of the anti-breastfeeding-in-public commenters here have children? And if they do, did they or do they breastfeed?
Answering that might shine light on the situation better than all this pontificating.
"re-re"
What's so hard about "rectifying" both statements? Do you mean perhaps "reconcile?" Do you think a woman can just "whip it out" and go for it? Even with a nursing bra, it can take a minute to get ready. How about this for a scenario: She sits down in a corner and begins her preparations, unbuttoning her blouse. Some uptight customer (probably a male, since the negative comments here are predominantly males who likely aren't fathers, and possibly a smoker who thinks they're discriminated against because they're forced to take unhealthy secondhand smoke outside ;-) sees her getting ready and runs to a clerk, yelling, "There's a woman stripping!" 30 seconds after she finally starts nursing, clerk begins harassment. How do you know the clerk didn't run up to her anyway?
Whatever happened to discretion? People forget that discretion runs both ways. If they're not flaunting it, you don't have to stare. And she wasn't flaunting it. Any imbecile who commented that she was had better be able to point out any sentence in any of the articles that said she just did it in the middle of the store, or they should just shut up.
this has everything to do with poor manners and a sense of entitlement and nothing to do with civil rights or bodily functions.
with this thread the myth of New Yorkers being sophisticated is officially busted.
mh,
You're absolutely right. People eating in public is disgusting. Let's close down all the restaurants including Le Cirque so we don't have to suffer such indignities as watching other people eat.
Breastfeeding is 1000% appropriate when done discreetly -- just like many, many things are appropriate when done discreetly.
And, like many things, even 1000% appropriate activities can cross the line into inappropriateness when they're *not* done with discretion.
If everyone could just be sensitive to their fellow man, er woman...... the world would be better for everyone including breastfeeding mommies!
Brightliner with a another daily dose of wild extrapolation (shut down all restaurants) and name calling (boob) of anyone that dares to disagree with you.
re-re: use the brain God gave you. Two customers. 1 + 1 = 2. They are both right...dah dee dumb.
The both need to be treated as customers the store values.
Is it strange that I'm gay... and I'm totally for more boobies being displayed in public???
Personally, I don't even believe that a real customer complained. I think it is plausible that the staff just went ballistic.
The discrepancy between the Toy flack's account and the woman's basically says that somebody is lying, big time. It boils down to this: Which do you believe - a bunch of midtown clerks bully some woman and then a manager tries to gloss over it, or woman is treated politely but makes up lots of untrue details in an effort to gain attention.
(Like someone already suggested, let's see the security tape!)
"It is no different then smoking in public building."
No, it's very dangerous. Smoking harms your health. Secondhand smoking harms your health. Seeing something that's natural and postive doesn't. It might upset some people, but it hey get upset over something like that, they need to be upset a little. Expands their mind.
I happen to live in the same neighborhood as Chelsi and know her. She is a lovely woman who contributes much to our community, as does the rest of her family. I know that this is not a stunt, but a genuine reaction to outrageous and unenlightened behavior on the part of Toys R Us. I stand fully behind her, and think it's stunning that people are still so uncomfortable watching a woman feed her infant. If they are uncomfortable or disgusted, that's something they need to deal with -- not Chelsi or any other breastfeeding woman who are using their breasts in the way they are meant to be used.
As a side note, it's ironic that all this took place in a Toys R Us located in Times Square. If folks want to avoid seeing exposed breasts (and usually outside the context of breastfeeding), choose another neighborhood to frequent!
Is it me... or does it seem like kitg not been to Times Square in 15 years... thinking there are exposed breasts there??
I hope I'm not missing boobies somewhere...
Michael,
Have you seen the giant Jenna Jameson billboard or the big adds for the Hawaiian Tropic Restaurant and bar? Surely those are more sexualized than a woman feeding her kid.
I'm pregnant with my first child and hope to breastfeed. A fun fact about infants: they eat every couple of hours. So it's nearly impossible for a breastfeeding mom to leave the house, kid in tow, and NOT need to nurse in public. What no one has mentioned is that the mom in this story knew the kid was hungry. That means he was either crying or about to have a meltdown. How many easily offended store clerks or fellow customers would have shot mom very dirty looks had she traipsed through the whole huge store with a wailing infant in search of a private room that she may not have known even existed? I suspect she did what she could to keep baby happy, thus preserving the peace for herself and those around her.
To Whom It May Concern,
Shows what you know. Until today, I've posted maybe twice in the last week, hardly "daily." You with your usual dose of wild exaggeration. You're even too cowardly to come up with your own nick. You are a boob and chickenshit to boot. Somehow, I don't think you'll be replying to this with a real nick.
here's how im guessing it went down:
woman starts breastfeeding, low-level clerk comes up and asks her to stop in a rude way, woman demands to talk to a manager. the manager suggests that she use the designated breastfeeding area, but by that point it was already an issue that could possibly warrant compensation, so she made a big stink (which im not saying she shouldn't have!)
but seriously... why does this woman think she's entitled to any money? i understand that she was mistreated and i feel for her, but this is new york city. i get mistreated by customer service people every day! that shit just happens here.
i just realized my "nick" is "nick"
this rules, by the way.
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9496/breastfeedingft6.png
kitg: It is nice that you support your friend. I support her rights also.
However, a person is not free to do whatever they please, especially, if it makes other people uncomfortable. You can not yell fire in a crowded auditorium when there is no fire, you have to wear clothes to work, even though you may be comfortable with nudity. We are not free to do as we please. Also, a person can not eat during a church service in the sanctuary. It is not customary.
Be realistic.
There should be a breast feeding lounge, just as there are cafeterias to sit down and eat in.
Just for those who forgot or didn't know...
There is a law that states women can breastfeed publicly without any prejudice or penalty. Again, a law.
Despite your distatse for it, she had every right to breastfeed wherever in the store she chose. While it may be more polite to use a designated area, she would not have been required to do so.
You need to look at the law again. And also, how does the law define, public? Outside of the home?
Wow, the ignorance abounds. I proudly breastfed my child for two years. I tried to time outings around his in between feeding times, but sometimes it was not realistic. As far as pumps, that is all well and good, but anyone with experience and knowledge will tell you that NOT ALL women can pump successfully, or in great quantities. I was one of them. My son has never been sick, and has a healthy, slim body unlike the formula fed tribe. And, I actually had people that were so oblivious to the fact that I was BF my child in public, that they would start a conversation with me and then be very surprised when he extracated himself.
Is it barbaric for a dog to feed her welps? Humans are animals, plain and simple. I find it intriguing that in my experience, the people that oppose bf in public most, are very religious and right wing. You know what? Your Lord and Savior sucked on boobs for at least the first couple years of his life, and if you believe in God, then you should realize God put those things there for more than holding up your Ralph Lauren sweater.
You can go anywhere else in the world, and not have a second glance if you nurse your child, but in the US, it is some sort of travesty. It's okay to allow your children to watch Monday night football, which is so barbaric that the players have to wear so much protective gear, but feeding our babies is a sin. Please, spare me the Puritanical BS.
As for this woman, she should have an apology. Compensation, no. But I certainly would never shop there again if I were her.
Is this clear enough?
NY CLS Civ R § 79-e (Article 7 Miscellaneous Provisions).
1994 N.Y. ALS 98; 1994 N.Y. LAWS 98; 1994 N.Y. S.N. 3999
§ 79-E. Right To Breast Feed.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breast feed her baby in any location, public or private, where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether or not the nipple of the mother's breast is covered during or incidental to the breast feeding.
could someone please explain this to me...
don't "public" laws not pertain to private areas, such as retail stores, malls, etc... wouldn't a public law mean she could breastfeed her child on city property such as parks, sidewalks, etc etc.
Uh, the law states that a woman may breastfeed ANYWHERE she is legally allowed to be. As far as I know, women with infants are legally allowed to shop still, so regardless of where in the store she was nursing, she was within her rights to do so.
You're right, they can't force you to do anything, so why do you think anyone should be able to force a nursing mother into a hot, stuffy, usually filthy room? Just who the he** are you to think you get to make those kinds of decisions about an entire section of the population. You don't like it? Don't ogle it!
As well, her mother being an "official" in LLL means squat. They're not a political organization - they're a SUPPORT organization. Mention activism at a meeting and they'll shoot you down faster than anything I've ever seen. LLL has NOTHING to do with this incident, whatsoever. (Besides instilling a sense of confidence in this woman to be able to stand up for her LEGALLY PROTECTED RIGHTS!)
Compensation? I don't think she's asked for any money - just fancy lawyer speak from the NYCLU that seems to have done more harm than good. It is my understanding she merely wants an apology and for TRU employees to be better educated about the LAW.
"§ 14-190.9. Indecent exposure.
(B) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman may breast feed in any public or private location where she is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother's breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast feeding.
They key here is, "where she is otherwise authorized to be." She was authorized to breast feed in the basement, not on the showroom floor.
Regardless, the management should have handled the situation in a professional manner. Why is this a blog source? Because Toy R Us does not know how to treat customers.
Public laws pertain to private areas in most cases (you can't murder someone in your home just because it's your private residence) and in this particular law, it specifically states "in any location, public or private." As long as she otherwise has a right to be there - and presumably anyone is allowed into Toys R Us - she has a right under the law to breastfeed.