August 15, 2006
Step Aside And Let 'Em Off
I have a really puzzling situation that seems to arise often when I ride the subway. You know how the conductors tell us to "step aside and let 'em off"?
Here is what happened yesterday, which is pretty typical: I was trying to change to the express train from the local, and as we pulled into the station I saw my train across the platform. I was not the only one. There were a whole bunch of us at the door eagerly waiting to leave the train and jump on the express across the tracks. I just happened to be in front, at the door. So anyway, by the time the doors opened, there was a fair-sized guy standing right in the middle in front of the door, with two other people standing at the sides but just blocking enough of the door so that no one could get out.
So I said "excuse me," and he did nothing. Not a move by anyone. So, having no choice really (I certainly couldn't back up, there being all those people behind me, and besides, we want the express!) I had to push between the big guy and the others, at which point he LAUGHED AT ME.
This is what I don't get, Gothamist. What exactly was I supposed to have done in that situation? Why was he laughing?
I only ask because this sort of thing seems to happen a lot, and the reaction of the person or people blocking the door to my requests that they allow me to leave the train is usally something like laughter.
So what is the right thing to do here?
And why are they laughing?
Oh boy. We can only imagine that this is going to incite a lot of comments so lets get started. We don't know how many times we have encountered the same type of lazy behavior from our fellow commuters. People like to lean against the door instead of holding the pole. We even do it ourselves, it's more comfortable. However, in saying that, the proper thing to do would be to either exit the train and stand to the side while others exit and then re-enter the train, or move out of the door before people are trying to exit. But some people are just plain lazy and can't be bothered. Our method of exiting the train in that situation is to say excuse me once, giving them the opportunity to move. If they dont, we shove our way out, while saying excuse me again. We feel that if someone is too lazy to move they probably don't mind all that much being nailed in the gut by our bag or elbow. (Of course, this does not apply to small children or the elderly, or tourists who seem unfamiliar with the trains.) Or you can try another set of doors, but then you risk getting caught in the flood of people entering the trains and missing your stop just because you don't want to be a little pushy. A fun option, if you are feeling a little punchy, would be to start exclaiming loudly how you feel like your going to projectile vomit everywhere. Maybe that'd clear a path for you? We don't know if that counts as "subway etiquette" however.
Now, why were they laughing? Who knows. Maybe they were shocked that people have manners and say "excuse me", when it seems that more often the norm on the subway is every man for themselves. We would just be happy and leave a trail of laughter behind you, while you catch that express train and get to your destination quicker.
We're sure other people have some thoughts?
Photo of R68 door by Triborough on flickr
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I think you read it wrong. Sounds to me like the offending party was not IN the train but was standing on the platform waiting to board and blocking those who were trying to exit the train.
The answer in either case, of course, is a shoulder shove.
All I gotta say is, get the F outta of my way! Cause whatever else is going on, I am the most important!
After the initial "excuse me" or two, definitely a shoulder or elbow shove accompanied by a loud-enough-for-others-to-hear "get the fuck out of the way" or "you fucking idiot." My hope is that the offending moron is embarrassed enough about getting this kind of business from a five foot nothing woman that he/she thinks twice the next time. I'm probably wrong, but whatever; still feels good to say it.
"What exactly was I supposed to have done in that situation?"
Tell him "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY ASSHOLE!"
That usually works.
It's simple. If you are bigger than the person in your way, then push them out of the way. If you are smaller, then say excuse me and then push them out of your way.
Seriuosly though, I think it's a different situation each time those doors open. Sometimes the person is blocking the doors because the platform is too crowded and they can't move out of the way. Sometimes, they just aren't paying attention. Sometimes they are just a-holes who feel entitled to get on the train before you get off or anyone else gets on.
An "accidental" spearing of the foot by my shoe always works for me. Whatever works - elbows, handbags...you need to assert your personal space. I once even spat my gum at a woman who refused to move out of my way. I don't recommend that unless you're armed or fast, but I was pissed and I did it and it stuck to her skirt, which was the best part. Plus, I think she got my point. ;-)
The answer is simple. Carry a gun. When the guy on the platform (why is it always a big guy?) won't stand aside to let you off, or insists of getting in before you get out, shoot him dead.
Most of the people who do this are from outside the city, so what's it matter?
(kidding, people, kidding)
This is a true pet peeve since I have to get on and off the train at Penn Station and I'm ususally fighting the flow. There should be a training course for people riding the subways.
Training course, get it?
There was a time when the public schools and settlement houses taught immigrant children and their parents how one would get on and off a bus or a train.
But politeness seems to have little place in the city today.
I HATE the people who stand in front of subway doors, either on the platform or inside of the train, and prevent people from getting in or out. HATE THEM. Anyone who does this should be banished from living here or in any city. I have adopted a method that makes me feel a little guilty, but it serves: if there's a crowd outside of the doors who look like they're going to push into the train without letting riders off first, I just stick both of my elbows out as far as they'll go and who ever accidentally gets their fat rude gut jabbed, that's their problem. Then I inevitably feel bad about it, because underneath the hate I'm a nice girl. Then I do it again on the next train, because people really need to get their cab ass out of the way. Bad urban manners make me very, very angry. What are these idiots thinking, anyway? Why shove into the train when people are very obviously trying to get out of it? What will you possibly gain, other than my elbow in your impossibly ugly belly?
Forget rude people in the subway, how about rude subway train conductors. I'm shocked to read in this story that the local actually was waiting for the express train riders. I mean, how many times does THAT happen?
Yes, exactly. I've lost count of the amount of times I've pulled into Jay Street on an A or a C train, try to switch to the F, only to have it pull away before anyone from the A or C train has a chance to get on it. What is the point of that?
You can stand behind me. I'll get you through. I'm taller than most of the people on the island of Manhattan, so if a polite 'excuse me' doesn't work they get my shoulders. Over the years I have decided that if someone wants to be a dick and just stand there, I will have no compunction about plowing straight through them. Hopefully the people behind me will benefit as well and the idiots on the platform will actually move the next time someone asks politely.
The preferred comeback to the a-hole's laughter is "Go back to Jersey."
I agree with everyone else - this is a wonderful opportunity for some bodily contact.
But here's my thing - I suspect that saying "excuse me" just doesn't cut it in NYC. It's not even particularly polite if it just means "get out of my way." Thus, select from "hey could you move it" (if the other party is clearly in the wrong) or "can I squeeze by you?" if you are imposing on them.
At the subway stop there is no time to talk, just shove.
My husband actually has a technique that works in most cases, even if he sounds like an idiot when he does it (and he's not afraid of sounding like an idiot). He simply states, very loudly and clearly, "EXCUSE ME, GETTING OFF" from wherever he happens to be standing on the train. People are so shocked to hear someone say that, that they usually move out of the way.
And I'm with everyone else on the people-trying-to-get-on-before-you-get-off issue: They get a sharp elbow or shoulder if they're still in my way after I say "excuse me". Morons.
I go for the passive-aggressive "excuse me" combined with the overt shove-past, elbow-optional. Hooking someone's purse/bag with your own purse-bag is also fun-making. This also applies to those who only partially block egress.
Yes, part of manners is to avoid things like shoving and bag-hooking, but also part of the way is getting out of it.
Best was the other day, uptown on an F train, some young guy, tuning out the city with his iPod.... was carrying a notebook with a sticker on it that read "Mean People Suck". He then proceeded to not only cut everyone waiting for the subway doors to open, but pushed the people back that were trying to get off. Awesome. Courtesy is contagious man. So is rudeness. I loved our city right after 9/11. At least we had about 4 months of helping our neighbors before we turned into shitheads again.
if you step on someone's feet, they'll move instinctively.
it's great being big. i push, people move.
I like that everyone is in agreement to this. I do much of the same: say "excuse me" or "let us off first" and push my way through.
Knee that fucker in the balls. It will be the last time he positions himself there.
My main stop is the B/D at Grand Street. If there's one group of people who really doesn't understand the concept of stepping aside to let others get off the train before they get on, it's the Chinese at that stop. I know, I know -- sounds really bad -- but it's absolutely true! The second the doors open, they shove their way onto the train as if the train's not going to be there for another 10 seconds after everyone gets off.
If I'm standing right at the doors, I have to bodycheck 5-6 Chinese people just to get out. I say loudly "Let us off first!" but obviously no one listens (or understands). It's simply unbelieveable. Now granted, I'm not getting off in order to catch another train -- but it still sucks to have to go through this every day.
Also, it's impossible to catch a train arriving in the station at that same stop because NO ONE will let you down the staircase to get to the train.
I still think the worst is when big-ass fuck heads block the doors when you are trying to get out. If the train is crowded, then it is even more offensive. I would like to say "get the fuck out of my way asshole" but these people are usually male, large, and menacing...or maybe if its a female she is very tough-looking. But whatever, realistically, shouting at a door-blocker is not an option for me. Call me a pussy, but I rage on the inside. I do like the fake throw-up idea...but does anyone have any other non-violent ways to get ugly fuck-heads to move?
#14: The whole excuse me thing is very iffy.
This morning, as I was exiting the 7 at Grand Central, I walked up the left side of the escalator right behind a massive man (I see a trend). He had his back pack and bumped a few of the non-walkers on the right side. Yet, it seemed that people were angry at me too. I got the ever popular "Why don't you say excuse me" line. Next time I will in fact say "Go back to Jersey!" or maybe even a simple "Why don't YOU say excuse me!?!"
was the dude black?
I totally hear you Gwin! The chinese immigrants are the WORST. Those old ladies can shove, and push, and scramble. They storm onto the train and start running in all directions - and fighting amongst themselves. My boyfriend used to mess with them at that stop. He would wait for the train and then start jumping around like a boxer, getting "pumped". Then he would rush onto the train and make a big show of rushing for a seat. It was HILARIOUS! But the ultimate worst is riders who choose to not give up their seat for the elderly and pregnant. That is my pet peeve.
Another situation I can't stand is trying to get down the stairs when a train has just arrived. In particular, trying to get down to the downtown 4/5 at Union Sq. when the flood of people are coming up the stairs. I usually would just stay to the right and keep walking. I would also often hold my forearm out in front of me with my fist acting as a sort of battering ram. Not that I would try to hit people but it was just enough for people to see and get out of the way. I think having the downward momentum helps too. People coming upstairs are a little more off balance and more apt to get out of the way. I also think that by just plowing through people do realize, "Oh wait, I'm in the way." and move, if they can.
It's the same as getting on or off a train. It's my right to get on or off the train or up or down the stairs so get the eff outta the way.
Another pet peeve: when I'm standing in the doorway and get out of the way to let people on or off and someone just plants themselves where I had just been standing. No good deed goes unpunished.
Jessie: that's pretty funny - but I guarantee no one understood that your boyfriend was mocking them :)
As far as the elderly and pregnant are concerned, I always give up my seat for them (or keep my eyes open for a free seat for them if I'm standing myself).
I hate it when people block the doors inside the train even when the train is empty. WTF? Grab a pole, dickwads! GET OUT OF THE DOORWAY.
I'm an average sized male and what I hate even more than a really large guy blocking me from exiting the train is when an old lady is doing it. I can at least push the large out of the way in a mano-a-mano sort of way and risk getting the snot beaten out of me. But when an old lady is not letting me off the train, I feel obliged to push the person next to her who if not directly in front of the train doors. The old lady should know better, but then again, she is an old lady.
I'm native as few are. 45 years old. I think things have gotten really bad in recent years with the door blocking rotine. Don't remember it being this way in my youth - the 70s - when the trains were rather colorful.
Grand Street B/D!!!!
i don't think the concept of wait in line, or wait your turn exists in chinatown. i've had those little old ladies try and push their way through me, I'm over 6 feet. i've finally figured it out that if you push back and just treat them like shit back, they back off. inconsiderate fucks.
Wait, why can't we shove the tourists? Isn't that part of their NYC experience?
this makes me want to go to the grand street station just so i can practice my favorite hobby, asian plowing.
but here's a subquestion!!!
[b]when there are people leaving the station, and you're going into the station...should you wait for everyone to leave and the turnstiles to clear up, or should the people exiting the station wait?[/b]
Nick: that's a good question. The problem is, the B and D trains tend to come in pairs, especially during the morning rush. If you were to wait for all the little Chinese grandmothers to clear the turnstiles (or at least a good number of them), chances are you'll not be able to get down in time for the next train.
what about for subway etiquette in general?
and i just figured out the bold function. oh yes.
Dude, what's with the "go back to Jersey" thing? If you say that then you can only be one thing: a transplant. If you get so upset by people from New Jersey, then go back to the rural, hick-filled Midwestern / New England dump you came from, because you obviously can't deal with New York City.
Nick: if there's still a chance the people entering the station will make the train, the people trying to exit should let them in. Otherwise, the exiters get priority. At least that's how it should work.
I don't see many chinese women on the train so I can't comment on their rudeness. I do think that French people are generally in their own worlds "ooh la la" this and that while they stand right in your way.
Nick: I guess it really depends on the stop/circumstances. Are the turnstiles right next to the tracks, or somewhere at a distance? Is the train right there in front of you, or is there no train in sight? Are there lots of turnstiles for people to use, or only a few?
I would therefore say that a combination of courtesy, common sense and timing would result in different answers to your question.
Ahh....my years of playing high school football has paided off when getting on or off subways. Spear 'em.
Nick:
If there is a mob of people coming up from the station, then you should just wait. You've missed the train already. If the grouping is more sparse, then slink on down. At larger stations like 34th and 42nd this rule obviously doesn't apply because the turnstiles are removed from the stairs to the platform.
This is not exactly related, but I encountered a bizarre situation a couple of months ago. I forget which train i was heading for, maybe the F train in Park Slope. It was later evening and I was the only one on the stairs. As I headed towards the turnstile I noticed an old asian woman behind me. She must have been waiting down there for someone. I went through the turnstile (the full body-cage kind, not the ones you can jump). And this asian lady snuck in behind me and we went through together. I have been issued a ticket for doing this once before, and I was pissed. How creepy! She didn't really speak any english, and I told her that it was illegal. Geez! Only in New York folks.
The solution is to be the second person off the train, not the first. Let the guy in front of you do the pushing, and follow him.
Definitely definitely definitely the Grand Street B/D! They little Chinese ladies are the absolute worst! Getting off the train is a huge pain in the ass, and then getting out of the station is an even bigger pain in the ass!
My pet peeve is people (almost always short people) who wrap their bodies around the poles on crowded trains. Everybody else has to fight for position to be able to hold on above them and stumble around just because one little woman wants to hold on for dear life/comfort.
z: how can I be the last off the train if I've already shoved everyone else out of the way?
I definitely do not understand why people wait on the platform in front of the opening doors and block the way. What happens when they try to get off a train the situation happens to them in reverse? I'm sure they don't like it either.
Interestingly, though - on a recent to Toronto, while waiting to get onto a train, I waiting to teh side of an opening door, and an exiting passenger actually rammed into my elbow, which was barely sticking out of the way, but not enough so that he had to. Very rude!
I ride the 4/5/6 trains, so I encounter this kind of behavior all the time during the evening rush hour when Yankee fans are on the way to a game and I'm just trying to get home. At 86th St. I have to fight the people already on the train, who are oblivious to people like me who aren't going to the game, and I have to push past the Yankee fans on the platform and coming down the stairs. Maybe I should just keep a Yankees schedule on my desk at work and stay late enough to avoid this whole mess. When these clowns are in front of me, I love that I have the freedome to go from mild-mannered Manhattan resident to stereotypical rude New Yorker and shove my way through the crowd, sometimes with an "excuse me!" to make me look just a little courteous.
Regarding the original poster/question-asker, why do these "blockers" laugh when you try to get past them? Are they having fun seeing you try to get by, knowing they are agitating you? How completely dickless. Aren't people too busy to bother picking on others all day long as they go about their business? It's terribly stressful to try make your way around anyway, why add to it? Power trip?
Solution: Get a new job that has your start and end time during off-peak hours, ideally overnight hours. Then you'll never face the crowds and never have a problem. Well, the only problem you'll have is finding a car on the train not occupied by a homeless man who has deficated in his pants a few dozen times.
One thing folks can do be a positive example when you are waiting to load a train. People are surprisingly polite when they see others doing it. Don't give in quickly to your worst impulses, it only encourages others to do the same.
i have never been pushed so many times as i have by the asian ladies in chinatown. i don't know if it is a cultural thing or what but it is truly shocking. how hard is it to realize you are in america now, and what worked in the motherland DOES NOT WORK HERE!
Glenn: you are totally right, and under normal circumstances I'd agree with you 100%.
Unfortunately, polite behavior goes unnoticed and unimitated in a part of town where blowing snot-rockets and hocking up loogies and spitting them out in public (including in the stairwells of my apartment building) qualifies as acceptable behavior.
I think that's how the trains are in China, that's why they act like that. In China if you don't tackle people to get into a train you won't get on. PERIOD. Cause they got like a billion people trying to get into a train car. I see a lot of black people beating people up in trains.
I was once asked by an acupuncturist, orginally from somewhere near Shanghai, what causes me stress in a minor way. I said that trying to get through unmoving crowds of people really pissed me off. He expressed surprise at that, saying that in China, no one would be bothered by crowds or by people shoving and getting in eachothers' way, because it's just so crowded there. So I just assume that in Chinatown, people will shove me on the train. But outside of there, forget it.
And as for shoving tourists, I say go right ahead. It might make their day by confirming their stereotypes about New York.
I'm a native, too, though a bit younger. It definitely seems worse these days. Almost as bad as Boston, where people are more rude in general than anyplace else I have ever been in my life.
When you see the express, just GO FOR IT. Everyone knows that when two trains are parallel to watch the fuck out, because there's always a stampede. While he was definitely rude, I just have to say he was laughing because you bothered to even say "excuse me" in the first place in that parallel train situation, which --I repeat-- everyone knows is a rush-to-the-death. From the looks of your whiny complaint, "excuse me" was likely said with a snooty, shrill, upper-class-entitled honk along with a heavy dose of perky valley-girl. You were just standing there flailing your cappuccino, spilling it, saying "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me," instead of just getting the fuck off the train from the start. That was why he was laughing. Sorry, but that's the truth. Hell, I'm laughing now. How do you even make it to express trains before they pull away if you stand there like a primadonna demanding "Excuse me, excuse me"? I'm surprised you even show up to work on time at all!
Why do you care why he was laughing? Just knock his ass out of the way. I push everyone to the side, men, women, children, old people. I knock them all down! They deserve it.
Leela: that's interesting to know, but there's something to be said about adapting to the customs of the country in which one chooses to live.
REALITY CHECK: wow, make random assumptions much? How do you even know the original poster was female?
REALITY CHECK - if this person was at risk of losing their cappucino, I bet they'd step it up. You don't mess with one's cappucino. EVER.
it's just a askgoth post, relax.
Gwin: Yeah, I'm of two minds about that one myself. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time, in this country, it reads as complete lack of consideration. Then again, even at 5'4, I tower over some of the offending parties, and they look frail even if they aren't, so I never want to push or elbow-jab them.
PATTIECAKE:
let's try not to be so racist, shall we? what year do you think this is, really? what you are doing by mentioning (out of context) that you've seen "black people beating people up in trains" is not helpful nor appropriate, especially in this kind of forum. what do you want, others to agree with you and also share their stories similar to yours?
if you're totally joking, i'm sorry that i've misread your two references to "black people" on this thread. if you're not joking, then please think more about how racism is perpetuated and kept alive by comments like yours.
I recall being in front of the train doors when it pulled into the station. It wasn't my intention to be there, but there I was - 2 people in from the platform edge. The doors opened pretty fast, and while it wasn't completely crowded people were standing next to each other. I lost my balance for a moment, and in that moment this asshole (must like the protagonist in everyone's postings) burns through. The other two people get out of his way. There was fire in his eyes. His fury was righteous. His motive was retribution. His cause was just. He barreled into me, almost knocking me to the ground. I could have been repeatedly stepped