June 14, 2006
Suckle This
If milk does a body good, mother's milk seems to do worlds of it. Yesterday, the NY Times explored the science of breast-feeding, from its ability to strengthen the mother-baby bond to strengthening the baby's immune system. The benefits of suckling at the teat have been kicked around for years. Other gains to be made include reducing a baby's risk of developing obesity, asthma, diabetes, and even cancers later in life, including leukemia and lymphoma. Kids who are breast fed also tend to score higher on IQ tests, avoid some autoimmune disease and can dodge certain infections thanks to antibodies passed along in the milk that mommy has herself been building up all her life.
And there's good news for moms too: breast-feeding can keep one from ovulating which (in addition to obvious immediate benefits) is associated with a decreased risk of breast and ovarian cancer. This is thought to result from decreased estrogen levels during lactation.
The trouble is, despite this growing pile of evidence in favor of the practice, PC thugs are a little worried because a campaign to encourage breast-feeding may make women who are unable to do so feel inadequate and guilty. We wonder if they would also hold back on advising people to eat healthier or hit the gym out of fear of making people feel bad that they can't afford either. Breast feeding rates apparently increase with education, income, and age. Black women do it less frequently than most while Hispanics breast-feed often.
While manufactured formula is the second best option for those can't breast-feed, despite being modeled after human, it is still doesn’t hold up against the real thing. Though it's a great pinch-hitter for when mom is taking a medication which may get into her milk or has a disease, like HIV, which may also end up there.
But what we really want to know, and you knew this was coming, are your thoughts on public breast-feeding. We understand that we live in a more puritan country than we like to admit sometimes but is it really that offensive and disgusting when a woman whips it out on a park bench, on the bus, or on line at the Shake Shack? Maybe the City should provide more public breast-feeding stations - maybe with a little curtain and R&B music? Or maybe just ban it all together? What do you think?
So breast-feed if you can, in public if you must, and maybe your kid won't end up a chubbo.
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I know a couple of women who say they won't breastfeed when they have children. Not "can't", won't. Have you ever heard of such a selfish attitude? Amazes me.
please please please stop talking about the shake shack? i get it. they make good burgers. big deal. what can that possibly have to do with breast feeding. let's think outside the shack, shall we?
I was proud to breastfeed, but could never really manage it in public. If I was somewhere with other moms and babies I was ok, but never just out and about. I just would start to feel nervous, like people were grossed out. And when you're nervous, it just doesn't work. So, I would pump bottles to give my baby while we were out.
Here in Park Slope, where EVERYONE breastfeeds, I got some strange reactions. Someone actually said to me, "Did you even TRY to breastfeed?" I explained that the bottle did in fact contain breast milk. Later I felt annoyed at myself for feeling the need to explain. In the end, it's just not anyone else's business.
There are many women who can't breastfeed, like those who have had breast reduction surgery, etc. I know breast milk is best, but putting a big black warning label on a can of formula does not solve the problem. Solving the problem involves longer maternity leaves and family friendly workplaces so you don't have to go to the bathroom to pump in front of your work-mates. They say it is best to breast feed for one year, but with average maternity leaves around 12 weeks it is almost impossible to achieve that one year mark.
And the guilt on mothers continues...
Breastfeeding in public is like clipping your fingernails, blowing your nose or cleaning out your ear with a key in public: it isn't oh-gahhhh gross, but it's a body thing that's best done in privacy if you can possibly wait.
Of course, if the kid needs to eat right then, then you gotta do it. The thing is, a lot of moms seem to do it as some kind of aggressive political statement, not because they have to. They're the moms on the park bench glaring at passers-by, just waiting to unload some self-righteous lacto-wrath on someone they think is looking at them funny.
And yeah, all done with the Shake Shack. Good burger, too salty, not worth more than a five-minute wait.
I am glad that everyone isn't as sqeamish about breastfeeding as Tom is... my guess is that he misses it!
So, first you're a bad mother if you don't stay home, now you're a bad mother if you don't breast feed. Just another way the patriarchy likes to make women feel like shit and be responsible for most, if not all, the child rearing.
I wasn't breast fed and I have a Ph.D in biochemistry. Huh, imagine that.
Just so long as the broad ain't a chubbo I don't see a problem.
Margaret - that Park Slope story is unreal. I believe it, of course, but it's unreal. I'll be honest - I look forward to having children, but zero about breastfeeding them appeals to me. I'll do it because it's healthier, but it sounds like a huge chore and sacrifice.
As for the breastfeeding in public, it really doesn't bother me. Does it throw me off when a woman whips them out without warning? Sure. I think it's a bit private, but what the baby needs trumps societal discomfort with visible breasts. I don't think it's puritanical to be taken aback by it, but I don't support any kind of law that would restrict public breastfeeding.
Allison - I wasn't breastfed either and, at the risk of sounding like a conceited ass, am highly-educated and pretty athletic (as are all of my siblings). No allergies or childhood illnesses, either. I believe that breastmilk is healthier in the aggregate (it's been proven over and over again), but some of the sickliest people I know were breastfed.
Making it a social taboo for women not to be tethered to their children at all times for a year after giving birth would erase decades of progress for women in the workplace and elsewhere. Debates like this one just wind up pitting one camp of feminists against their Park Slope-dwelling sisters. Betty Friedan must be rolling in her grave...
"I wasn't breast fed and I have a Ph.D in biochemistry. Huh, imagine that."
"I wasn't breastfed either and [...] am highly-educated and pretty athletic. [...] some of the sickliest people I know were breastfed."
purely anecdotal and without any merit. The facts are based on very large amounts of data, so your bug-in-the-rug perspectives are worthless.
The real problem is that Americans are prudes who shiver at the sight of a boob, their past as puritanical witch burners is still ever too present, therefore women who breast feed in public are stigmatized as somehow being lewd, and women themselves are self conscious about it, when its a perfectly normal and honorable and uneventful thing to do. its a boob, get over it.
"it sounds like a huge chore and sacrifice."
It's called child rearing, what the fuck do you think it is? 22+ years of "chore and sacrifice". if thats not what you want, get yourself a labradoodle, its still more fashionable than a baby. And you wont have to worry about breast feeding it.
Thanks for your hilarious post "s". I agree 100%!
bring back smoking in bars
Tom:
Clipping your nails in public IS a oh-gahhh offense for most civilized people.
Die Yupster Scum:
Fuck the feminists. You're all boring. And shave your fucking pits, you monsters.
Should mothers be allowed to breastfeed in public? Absolutely. If not, it confines every breastfeeding mother to her apartment, and damned that wouldn't be depressing as anything. I still remember watching a woman trying to discreetly breastfeed her wailing baby in the corner of Pathmark, and how completely humiliated she looked.
On the other hand, their is such a thing as breastfeeding etiquette."Whip it out?" That's some poor technique. My lactating friend uses a little throw blanket to shield people's eyes from the whole process. From the other end, she'd always like to be offered a glass of water.
I agree with Tom when he says that some women seem to use it as some sort of political statement and seem to glare at you as you walk by. I couldn't care less, but it would be nice if mothers used a mini-blanket for people who are bothered by it.
At the same time, I'm irritated by the mothers who seem to expect everyone to accomodate their every effort. Like the poster above, "[My friend would] always like to be offered a glass of water. " Why should have to do anything for your friend's baby? It's not my fault she had a baby!
I have no problem shooting an angry glare at an SUV stroller taking up the entire aisle, but breast feeding? Sheesh, who cares? A kid's hunger will always take precedence over an uptight asshole.
See, I have my own theory on why some (mostly men) get their manties in a bunch over doing this in public; either they are gay, and offended by the sight of a breast (which I suppose is understandable), or they don't want the image of a stripper's breast "sullied" by having to be subjected to the sight of it's actual purpose. Their vision of the boobie as a sexual object isn't as "special" as it once was.
As far as whether or not I'll breast feed if I breed, that remains to be seen. I probably would, but I really don't appreciate the self-righteousness of a lot of these comments (again, from men?!). Do I tell you guys where, when, and if you should shoot your loads? I'm pretty sure not all of you are qualified to be fathers, yet you do it anyway.
Hey, at least I have plenty of dudes to tell me if, when, and where I should breast feed; thinking for myself is pretty overrated.
Should mothers be allowed to BF in public? Absolutely. However, I will never do it because the men leering at my COVERED breasts on the subway freaks me out enough and I don't need them leering at my uncovered, larger-than-usual ones with a baby hanging off them. Ick, ick, and double ick. Not in this society.
I love how the Democrats claim to be the party of science but when faced with scientific studies about the merits of breastfeeding the feminists here revert to the "whatevah! I do what I want!" screed as well as resort to the very unscientific use of anecdotes to refute a study with thousands of participants. Way to go. The man-hating is just icing on the cake.
The reason that women have breasts is to nurse their babies. Because women's bodies are so hyper-sexualized people freak out at the thought of seeing a woman nurse her child in public. However, these people don't seem to have a problem with the images of women where breasts are almost entirely exposed plastered all over the city. If it makes you uncomfortable to watch a woman feeding her baby, don't look.
"Do I tell you guys where, when, and if you should shoot your loads?"
actually, yes, there are very specific laws concerning this.
Oh Eric, just because a woman doesn't want to put YOUR cock in her mouth doesn't make her a man hater!
Democrats are also the party of choice, lest you forget. We aren't particularly fond of people telling us what to do with our bodies, as I'm sure you wouldn't be. I'd love just once for a man's body to be subjected to the variety of debates as we deal with constantly.
"You can't get an abortion, and furthermore, you will only eat and drink this and that during this trimester (drinking the occasional glass of wine during the third trimester will result in immediate imprisonment). Upon (natural...no C-section for you young lady!) delivery, you will be forced to breastfeed..."
Speaking of "unscientific anecdotes," my mom constantly craved whisky and rare cheeseburgers during her pregnancy, and occasionally gave in (this was around 1971, and a lot of other women were doing the same). My aunt smoked a decent amount of marijuana during her pregnancies, and my cousins both excel in their fields. I think most of us turned out pretty well (after all, I AM a Democrat). Would I do the same, given subsequent results of such studies? I truly doubt it (but wouldn't hesitate to punch a snotty waiter if I was refused a glass of wine).
The point is, I don't require the services of some random cretin to wag an admonishing finger at me. Mind your own business.
eric cartman, I vote democrat yet I happen to agree with everything you wrote. Just shows to go ya that lumping everyone into one presumptive category is an exercise in futility.
Or should I assume that as a republican you are a pro-business, gun-toting, teetotaling end-of-days Christian?
Duderinoo — You and the waiter don't have to offer her a glass of water. But it would be a considerate thing to do. And isn't what most of this is all about?
Jane, you write "The reason that women have breasts is to nurse their babies."
That's a common and understandable misunderstanding, but a misunderstanding nevertheless. Female chimps and bonobos, for instance, are totally flat unless they're actively lactating. Less that 30% of human breast tissue is devoted to lactation: so why do we have them, then? They've developed as a sexual signal to men.
Guys are hard-wired to be attracted to breasts. To suggest that their attraction to them is some sort of societally-imposed infantile fetish is, to be blunt, a leftover piece of 50's pop-psych bullshit.
Really, the reason women have breasts is to nurse babies? That's kind of disappointing. I use mine to nicely fill out some sweet outfits I have and enjoy using them for mutual pleasure when fooling around with a hottie.
Seriously though, although I have no intention of reproducing, I respect any mothers' right to breast feed in public without embarassament or ridicule! Grow up people, they're doing it out of necessity not because they want to exhibit themselves or godforbid gross you out! sheesh!
The only thing that sucks are glaring righteous mothers that have a permanent sense of entitlement (to anything) as long as they have a young child. I will ALWAYS give up my seat, assist on stairs, escalator, etc. As we all should!
But I'm gonna frickin glare at you & your out of control screaming brat at brunch this Sunday. I mean, get a baby sitter, I wanna enjoy my brunch. But no, you'd rather be 'seen' in the mother/ daughter complementary chic & trendy outfits. We get it. You're a mom but your still hip. Get a babysitter.
Sorry, but I could poop one out myself sister, I'm not giving you a trophy that you need to validate yourself.
squirelly -
Part of my irritation in general is with mothers who expect that everyone should help them with something or get out of the way of their jogging-stroller just because they decided to have a baby. Park Slope moms are the perfect example - why the sense of entitlement?
I'm not saying parents need to be shut-ins, but if you want an easy baby-rearing experience, move to the suburbs... that's what they're there for.
doot doot,
As far as I know there are no laws regarding breast feeding in public so the comparison to abortion is false. That society has standards of preferred behavior is a problem of society, not government. And your debate skills are horrible. I'd ask for a refund from your junior college if I were you. Going for cheap laughs when I was clearly singling out the whiners like you as the manhaters clearly sailed over your head. People like you have to identify a target group (men, Republicans, etc.) as the singular cause of your problems, regardless of the evidence - again, total lack of respect for the scientific process.
and to cj,
answer to your questions: not a republican, yes, no (but I enjoy an occasional round of skeet), no, no. And I wasn't extending my comment to all Democrats in particular but more than a few elected Democrats and assorted talking heads have made the assertion about the "party of science" so my comment was more meant for them.
"Actually, No," don't be an idiot; of course the primary reason for breasts is breastfeeding. That's not to say there aren't secondary purposes.
It's not unreasonable to complain, or at the very least make fun of people who don't mind seeing breasts plastered everywhere in other contexts, yet are so "offended" by the sight of their main purpose.
Years ago, a friend who, as a new mom, was having breastfeeding trouble had great success after consulting with a breastfeeding coach. I didn't even know such people existed....
Black woman do not breast feed less then white people. Black woman are less likely to breast feed in public. At least the Black woman I know pump the milk for public feeding and breast feed at home. Most woman I know use comon sense. If you know you have a new born that needs to be fed every 2hrs, you would be in a place were the kid could eat comfortibly. If you know your family wants dinner on the table by 6pm; are you going to be out at 6pm still buying the grocies or are you setting table at 5:45pm. It is comon sense. The infant should be on a schedule. A woman should be able to set up her time to be in a place to feed her child.
This has nothing to do with education. It has to do with emotions and whether or not a woman chooses to bond with her child in that way. It also has nothing to do with income. Why would income play a factor when poor people can spend formula funds on other items. Hello... there is "free milk" in the breast. The woman learn this type of behavior from their parents. Regardless of color. If your grandmother and mother did not breast feed, there is a good chance that you won't either, regardless of your nationality.
Some woman don't breast feed out of an inconvience. Maybe the new baby is the second or third child and she can not take time for breast feeding with other needs in the house pending.
My understanding is that the science says it's BETTER to breast-feed, not that formula is harmful. The distinction is that mothers who do not breastfeed are not harming their children. Motherhood is hard enough. Society offers most mothers (even upper middle class married ones) too little support. So yeah, let's make them feel even more inadequate? (FYI: I will breast feed, but you guys are real dicks about it)
Duderinoo —
You're totally right that entitled mothers with large and aggressive strollers are maddening, and I'm grateful not to live in Park Slope.
On the other hand, while the suburbs are def. the obvious spot for child-raising, I absolutely f*cking hate living in them. The idea of having being sequestered in suburbia when I have kids, simply because some city people get squemish at the sight of a titty and lack small doses of consideration, is enough to fill me with pre-natal depression.
Wake up and realize that the breasts, mammory glands, are not for a grown man or grown womans sexual gratification. Some lessons in America are needed in anatomy and biology.
There should not be booths with R&B music playing. That was a stupid thought.
The American society has the entire case on breast feeding backwards. It shouldn't be an embarrassment to the public or the person breast feeding.
If you can bare women walking around with their tits and ass out, surely you can endure a few moments of an infant breast feeding.
The breasts are for a practical purpose, feeding an infant.
Oh, and Kapil?
Best use ever of a Red Hot Chili Peppers cover.
Doot Doot, no need to get sniffy. you're welcome to your opinion, but respond with evidence, not insults.
Arguing the "primary purpose" of the breast (or any other body part) makes no sense unless you're a creationist. If you're not, all we can do is look at what it's used for, and what the structures in it do.
The human female breast is present from menarche on: much, much less time is devoted to suckling. More than two-thirds of the tissue is not devoted to milk production. In short, neither time nor tissue suggests that the breast is "primarily" for lactation.
Is the breast used for lactation? Of course. Should women be allowed to breast-feed in public? of course. Should they politicize the act, and turn biology into a holier-than-thou crusade? Of course not.
misc. rants:
How did a scientific paper on the merits of breast feeding become an example of a patriarchal society trying to make women feel guilty? I guess some people always need to feel oppressed. Hardly anyone has said women shouldn't breast feed in public, only that they would prefer if they were more discreet.
On maternity leave, I have known more than a few women that pump their breasts at the office and either messengered the milk home or had their nanny or husband come pick it up. Men can get leave from their jobs as well and some people choose to stagger it so they put a newborn in daycare.
Actually I would prefer if women weren't showing their "coin slots" all over town. I'm not "offended" or "embarrassed". I come from the school that what you don't see can be sexier.
And whoever equated suburbia with being sequestered is obviously one of the "New York is the center of the universe" crowd. Some people enjoy the open space. Some people make friends with their neighbors and don't see feel isolated. And frankly, by the time you're in your thirties you don't need access to Chinese food at 4 AM.
And if women really believe that breasts were only about child rearing then push up bras and low cut tops wouldn't sell - even if the patriarchal fashion world tried to force it down your throat. Get real.
squirelly -
I'm fine with seeing tit, but don't expect me to help carry your stroller, bring you water, or rub your feet
Hey! Actually no
"Less that 30% of human breast tissue is devoted to lactation: so why do we have them, then? They've developed as a sexual signal to men."
Maybe you explanation of the the Bonobos breast is the reason that the male Bonobos screw the male and the female Bonobos. (sorry different subject matter)
Bonobos and chimps do not have the same diet or the same DNA as humans. It doesn't matter where the nipple rests, high (tripple D)or (low double A) it is still going to draw the milk from the ducts in the breast or mammory glands.
Breast are not sexual "signals" for men or women. They are a "signal" that the body is producing fat in that area of the body. Cancer loves the fat cell in the breast. And fat breast come from years of additives and preservatives that have affected the DNA.
It is not breast that men are stimulated by. It is the sent of a woman. You are like Pavlovs dog. You equate the breast in your mind with the sent of a women and you become arroused.
hey misc.,
I was the one who said that I would feel sequestered in the suburbs. Not to imply that New York (or any other city) is the center of the world, but it's certainly been the center of mine for the last ten years.
Being sequestered is a bit of an exaggeration, but for someone who lives within a short bike or walk to nearly everyone and everything I love, it's not much of one. Having grown up in the suburbs, they offer a lot of really wonderful things, but they aren't for everybody, especially people who hate spending time in a car.
* sorry for all the long posts, everyone!
Kapil Desai wrote:
>While manufactured formula is the second best option for those can't breast-feed, despite being modeled after human, it is still doesn’t hold up against the real thing. Though it's a great pinch-hitter for when mom is taking a medication which may get into her milk or has a disease, like HIV, which may also end up there.
Just for the record:
- According to the WHO, formula is FOURTH best. First is milk straight from the breast, second is the mother's milk fed another way (cup, dropper, bottle etc.,) third is another mother's milk, and LAST is an artificial substitute.
- There are very few medications that cannot be take whilst nursing, and almost all of them have substitutes which are safe.
With regard to breast-feeding in public:
Breast-feeding is the most natural thing in the world.
Breast milk is the first food any mammals ever had. And humans are mammals.
Babies need their nourishment, they need to "eat" and anyone who doesn't get that has "issues," which are THEIR problem and no one else's issues should prevent a baby from being fed when the baby needs to be fed.
A little discretion goes a long way, and a light-weight carefully placed blanket can help cover any potential problem with visibility -- but with or without "blankie" when the baby needs to eat the baby needs to eat. And that basic human need overrides any delicate sensibilities!
My husband and I are both the eldest of 7 children ALL of whom were breast fed -- All 14 of whom score in the top 2% on IQ and standardized tests -- as do our 4 daughters whom I breast fed -- and discretely when in public -- in fact, I doubt anyone ever knew when I fed them in public.
The hubby & I both have a deep abiding appreciation for the breast as the most beneficial and giving art-form on earth!
~*:]*~
Veber I actually agree with you, but I could have done without your pointless anecdote about the IQ crap. Breastfed babies -any baby can grow up to be a fat dumbass.
Next time you see a woman breast feeding in public in NYC keep in mind that her body is saturated with endorphins. This process helps her to produce adequate amounts of milk for her baby in a sometimes stressful situation and allows her to not give a shit about the dumb asses passing by who just don't get it. BTW I never glared at anyone while breast-feeding four years ago, I always just smiled serenely enjoying the cityscape on a hormonal high.
Pooping is one of the most natural things you can do. It is essential to health. If I don't poop sooner or later, I will die. Therefore, you have no right to tell me not to poop on the Lawn in Central Park. You people are too uptight about necessary natural functions. You have all seen poop before, so I know your efforts to keep me from pooping in public are hypocritical, Puritanical, repressive bullshit.
Unless you've actually done it, one can never understand what a pain in the @ss breastfeeding really is. It hurts, your boobs are gigantic; as soon as the kid cries, you are leaking all over the place, the kid is screaming and you are hurriedly trying to get him attached to your tit before someone around you gets offended by either the racket or your boob. Sure, you could use a blanket to cover yourself, and not be able to see what the f*ck you doing...not to mention the kid pops off as soon as the blanket hits his head because, come on, who really wants to be partially suffocated while eating? And also, breastmilk stains.
And yes, you could pump at home and bring it in a bottle with you, but pumping is even a bigger pain than just nursing, what with all the cleaning and assembling and disassembling and storing that goes along with it. And, oh yeah, it makes you feel bovine.
Formula is great in that respect, since it is much easier to administer and it allows for shared feeding responsibility; but it is pricey and if you run out while you are out and about, you are totally screwed.
Nursing is great, despite all the crap both physically and interpersonally that goes along with it, mainly because it free, always available and once you've mastered it, it's very quick to do.
Three gigantic pros, especially if you have more than one child. For me, the health benefits are just an added bonus.
And the "entitled" moms aren't "glaring" at you, they usually aren't even seeing you at all through the sleep deprived haze that surrounds them like a fog. You really don't matter at all in our world, until you do something stupid like speak to us. So go about your business and leave us alone. If you choose to help out a mom struggling with a stroller, then bravo to you, I'm sure your mom would be proud. If you choose to eye with disdain, that's fine, but karma's a bitch.
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