April 12, 2006
Giuliani Gets Worked Over in a Doc
The documentary isn't coming out for a month, but there's speculation about the upcoming Giuliani Time and what it could mean for the former mayor/possible Republican presidential candidate. Director Kevin Keating is trying to show the other, non-September 11 Giuliani - you know, the Gooliani we all remember from such events as the Abner Louima beating, the Amadou Diallo shooting, and the Sensation show debacle. The Times points out the film is being distributed by Cinema Libre, which is "known for its slate of leftish films, like 'Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism' and 'Uncovered: The War on Iraq.'" And the Daily News cuts to the chase and says for New Yorkers, it'll "offer few revelations." But it'll be a trip down memory lane!
It should be interesting to see what Middle America thinks of this, though we suspect some will be attracted to his hardline, hush-his-critics stances (one quote from Ed Koch on the Giuliani Time website: “He uses the levers of power to punish any critic. He doesn’t have that right. That’s why the First Amendment is so important and why I, on occasion, have referred to him as Pinochet, Caligula, maybe it’s a combination of the two.”) but what might be most revealing are his attitudes about the poor (subtext being minorities) - former schools chancellor Rudy Crew says, "There's something very deeply pathological about Rudy's humanity. He was barren, completely emotionally barren, on the issue of race." Giuliani is a complicated guy - right before September 11, he was probably at the nadir of his mayorship, what with his horrible separation with Donna Hanover and the city seeming to be fed up with him. Robert Polner, who edited America's Mayor: The Hidden History of Rudy Giuliani's New York, tells the Times, "He almost existed to manage a crisis. But there is far more to him than that."
Which Giuliani do you believe in? The cranky mayor who did good and bad or Giuliani the saint? And here is a Giuliani pumpkin carving pattern (though it looks more like Pig Vomit)!
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He'd have to be even more nuts than I think he is to leave his money-minting "security consulting firm" to run for President. There's no way he can win as a Republican. The red states will hate his leftish stances on most hot-button issues. And don't forget, he's "eye-talian."
i remember Giuliani, the mayor who went from terrible person and politician to saint for doing what any mayor would have done during a terrorist attack. he's a scumbag.
Koch's commentary is hilarious! I respect Giuliani, though I'll never vote Republican, and how hard he works but, damn, I'd never want to be friends with him. He sounds like every shitty thing about lawyers wrapped into one.
Just Donna Hanover's press conference after she was told by the media that Guiliani was divorcing her and wanted her out of Gracie Mansion should make a great segment. And then I seem to remember Guiliani sleeping over at a gay friend's apartment while that all got sorted out...oh, you could write a better script!
The comments so far seem to be a chorus. I wish I could buck that trend to spice up this thread, but I'm glad he is no longer in any position of power.
Guliani was, as a mayor and before that prosecutor (and probably as a kid), a school yard bully and a thug. Recall his punishing the average jaywalker--that's every New Yorker--with ticketing. He'd go after only the easiest of targets.
Come to think of it, he was probably the one who was bullied in the schoolyard for being a lisping pantywaist and as an adult he turned into one of his tormentors for his revenge.
Guliani has always been scum in his personal and professional life. He's ugly, has no class and should take Bernard Kerik and go fuck themselves crazy.
He probably sits at home praying to Allah thanking him for 9-11. Were it not for that no one would ever hear of his flabby ass again.
I'm hoping he runs for President. That way democrats can air his dirty laundry, then give him an asskicking he so desperately deserves.
if he plays his cards right, he'll go for the angle that he "knows what it takes to keep america safe". we'll be especially vulnerable to this kind of scare tactic after bush bombs iran.
nothing like scaring people into voting for you. remember how many "security alerts" we had before the election? and none now. how odd. must just be a coincidence.
the vast majority of the country (people ouside of NYC) only see him as a 9-11 hero. and that's who'll be voting for him. and since they outnumber us...we're fcked.
I grew up in NYC, lived through Koch, good and bad, Dinkins, all bad (good for Tennis though) and Giuliani. Like him or hate him (every one here seems to be leaning toward hate him) the city improved a whole lot after he took office.
Another note: "his attitudes about the poor (subtext being minorities)" Why do you associate poor with minorities? Does minority = poor? Talk about pre-conceptions based on race, sounds bigoted to me.
The city was so much better before Giuliani. Sure, crime was rampant and the economy was in the tank. But the other mayors were so much nicer to criminals. And even though there were more cases of police brutality under Dinkins than Giuliani, at least Dinkins knew how to kiss the media's ass. And how dare Giuliani treat the Great Sharpton with such disrespect. Anyone who doesn't like Al Sharpton is clearly a racist.
Anyone who doesn't like Al Sharpton is clearly a racist.
That was sarcasm, right?
I'd hate to see him in the Oval Office, but there have been Presidents with far less qualifications who've bought their way in quite handily. Ahem. If he were to win, I think it'd be time to check in with my friend in Toronto and see if I can borrow her basement for four years
I was born in New York, lived through Koch, Dinkins, Giuliani. I was even in diapers for Beame. It's important to note that some of the turnaround the Giuliani took as his was a result of nationwide prosperity. and perhaps because of changes Dinkins made in the NYPD to respond to his being soft on crime. Not like he sat on a tennis court and frittered his days away.
Giuliani was a tough image of New Yorkers but certainly did a lot to alienate the minorities (racial and orientation-wise) in the city who, yes, tend to be a poorer demographic. They also are a large percentage of the city; a good mayor wouldn't have to piss off 60-65 percent of the people to appease tourists and fat cats.
Rudy knew how to kiss tourists' and republicans' tails even though that was not where the concerns lay; he made the middle of the city a pretty place (and I applaud him for that) while entirely ignoring the hard questions of income disparity in the poorer areas. His heavy-handed treatment of the extremely large NYC arts community. Louima and Diallo. Donna Hanover. berating the press and detractors. Et cetera.
S - Sarcastic? No way. If you want to know if a white person is racist you need to ask Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson - that's how the media does it, right? So if they say Rudy is racist then he must be racist. Who cares of black neighborhoods are much safer now because of Giuliani's policies?
pico - I'm glad you aren't one of those people who think Giuliani's "broken window" theory of policing had anything to do with the drop in crime. Clearly, we owe it all to Dinkins and it is just the Republican media here in NY that insist in giving credit to Giuliani.
Who cares if the primary beneficiaries of less crime are blacks? Al and Jessie say he is mean - that is all that matters. Blacks were much happier in the Dinkins area, even though they were getting robbed and killed much more frequently.
And everyone knows how easy it is for a mayor to just fill trucks with money and dump it in the projects to cure income disparity. Why didn't he ever do that? He must be a racist.
pico: Well said, and I don't think I could really disagree with anything you wrote. You made a comment about income disparity; what politician does do anything about that? They all seem to say they are for the middle class, but when was the last time you saw a new building go up that wasn't advertised as "luxury living"? These buildings don't get built with out the ok of politicians. The city has become so un-affordable even if you are making $70k. Remember Bloomberg's comment in response to complaints that the new MoMA was too expensive? ($20) He said if you can't afford it don't go! But tax payer's money was used to pay for some of the construction of that museum! All politicians cater to the rich.
Nola, I made no mention of Sharpton and Jackson. They have some good points, to go along with Sharpton's bad points (I don't have much problem with Jesse; I tend not to listen to him when he talks about New York).
Along with the Broken Windows theory is the theory that crime dropped because of the ability to have abortions (see Freakonomics, I believe); the fact that some more people had jobs and therefore were not free to do crime. Perhaps rising rent moved people out to the Poconos, to Long Island's cheaper areas, to other cities. Perhaps the Three Strikes legislation had an effect.
Dinkins, yes, tennis playing Dinkins, increased the police force to deal with crime on the streets. He instituted community policing. During the election season, the homicide rate had dropped, but voters remembered Dinkins' soft face and Giuliani's tough demeanor, not the statistical facts. It's not just Giuliani's strong jaw that stopped crime, and his tough stances on dancing and jaywalkers.
We don't owe it all to Dinkins. We also don't owe it all to Giuliani and it's similarly ridiculous to say that the effect is one mayor or another. They are two extremes of politicians.
Hey, how come all the shootings seemed to be in the Bronx and Brooklyn in Giuliani's time? Hm.
Anyone remember the thuggish PBA rally with Ghouliani yelling "bullshit" in City Hall?
Why was it "thuggish" well they did jump over police baricades and jumped on top of cars.
Listen... all I know is that Rudy got rid of all my favorite peepshows in Times Square. No way am I voting for him...
pico - All the shootings were in BX and BK when Giuliani was mayor? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that there is more crime in those boroughs. And they were so much nicer in the 70s and 80s. Aside from the dead bodies and drug dealers, of course.
Dinkins' community policing was a brilliant idea - get cops to pick up trash rather than arrest murderers. And who can forget his masterful performance in Crown Heights.
Of course there are lots of clever theories that attempt to give credit to people other than Giuliani. Unfortunately they don't explain why NYC's crime dropped so much further than other cities, where abortion is also available.
Glad to hear you are a Jessie fan. He's a corrupt and vulgar anti-semite but nobody's perfect, right?
I can remember the Patrick Dorismond incident, when the 9/11 Whore attacked the character of an innocent man who had been shot by a policeman by saying, "He was no choirboy." And the next day his mother came out and say, "Well, yes, he was."
Let's remember that Dinkins hired the cops and Ray Kelly, Bill Bratton and Jack Maple (the inventor of Cop-Stat) figured out how to use them. When Kelly and Bratton took over, then crime started to go down. Best thing the 9/11 Whore did in his early days was give them the freedom and support to make the necessary changes. Once they started getting the credit, however, out the door they went. And once they were gone, the abuses started coming in.
Talk to ten cops today and if seven of them have a good word to say about the 9/11 Whore I'll buy you a beer.
I'd like the film to show the footage of Rudy going on (once again) indignantly and self-righteously in a press conference about Bill Clinton's behavior, when a reporter asks him about his own affair with Judy Nathan. Rudy went absolutely balistic: so much spit coming from his mouth it was almost like watching a rabid dog, red, purple, blue in the face, glasses askew, screaming that it was "a lie! Get out of here! Get him out of here!" Yeah, he's a great fit with the Republican't s. Do wrong, get caught, deny, deny, deny. All the while, our tax money was paying NYC detectives to give Rudy's mistress round-the-clock Police protection.
I wonder if they'll get his petition for the annullment of his first marriage: did Rudy lie to the Cardinal that he didn't know he had marrying his cousin, or did he lie to the priest performing the marriage that they wern't cousins, or did he knowingly marry his cousin and use a loophole to abandon her for a "trophy wife"? (Goes to character, as prosecutor Rudy might say.).
As for his much-vaunted crimefighting carreer, he was in such a rush to get his picture in the papers and on the television news that he rushed arrests before the case was adequately built, resulting in walks for dozens of criminals. Of course, St. Rudy just pinned the blame on the "Liberal judges" or incompetent lawyers in his office.
This man double crossed every friend he ever had, and turned his back on every belief he ever held. America deserves better than Rudy.
I'm glad he came along when he did, but I wouldn't want to work for him.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Tim is right. We should forget the fact that thousands of lives were saved because of Rudy's law enforcement strategies and just focus on his intemperate remarks. Who cares about the drop in crime? Offhand remarks to the press are what really matter.
And Tim's technique of blaming Rudy for anything bad that happened but crediting others for anything good that happened is really effective. Nobody can question such even handed analysis!
I'm glad Darrin points out all those nasty things about Rudy's personal life. Because that's what really matters. That's why Darrin would never have voted for Clinton.
Don't feed the troll...
A troll is anyone who disagrees with SD. Speaking of trolls, looks like he could use a few over at his dismal website. Not a single comment! But a great site for anyone who needs help getting to sleep.
Nola's no troll... trust me... we just disagree on a lot of stuff (including SD's website, but I digress...). But I stand by my offer, Noles. And you still owe me a beer from St. P. Day.
Thank you Tim. SD gets upset and scurries away when anyone disagrees with him. Maybe he should stick to Kos instead of sites where there is a diversity of opinion. And one of these days we'll have that beer. Alas, the little one at home has cut into my pub time.
Can't wait to see the film, if it truly airs Rudy's dirty laundry. There is no more loathsome figure in public life, as far as I'm concerned. Say what you want about W's astounding intellectual laziness and cronyism, I don't detect in him the paranoia-fuelled crulety that was on display every day during the Giuliani years. I know of no politician in a position of equivalent power who was as mean-spritied, vindictive, thin-skinned, and emotionally vacant as this martinet. That he could become President is sheer fantasy dreamed up by law-and-order fanatics. No alleged 9/11 heroics are going to make all of Rudy's negatives attractive to the Christian Right, and let's face it, they decide everything these days, don't they?