January 5, 2006
2nd Avenue Deli Closing Over $$$ Rent
Noooo!!! The 2nd Avenue Deli has been closed since Sunday - and may stay that way - because owner Jack Lebewohl thinks his new rent is too high. Lebewohl told the NY Times, "My current rent is $24,000 a month for 2,800 square feet. They want $33,000. I can't afford that." He added that he felt the restaurant would need to renovate in order to meet various health codes, which have been getting stricter. The new owners didn't return calls to the Times, but Gothamist wonders if various Kosher-food loving New Yorkers will put on a benefit to reopen it, a la CBGB's. Come on, food bloggers - let's band together!
Would you miss the 2nd Avenue Deli? We've gotten Passover fixings from there before, and Gothamist loves the 2nd Avenue Deli's tuna - with one sandwich, you get enough for three people! The restaurant celebrated its 50th anniversary last year. And the 2nd Avenue Deli provided an alibi for a man falsely arrested during 2004's Republican National Convention.
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I walked by yesterday and thought they were closed for some Jewish holiday I didn't know. I'm sad. Their chopped liver and tuna salad were the best.
Wow, that's a shame. Definitely needs a "Save the 2nd Avenue Deli" Campaign...
$33,000 per month for rent would mean a yearly total of $396,000. That's a lot of knishes--or am I missing something here?
Sadly, the Second Avenue Deli is not kosher.
I agree with Anonymous-it's not kosher and actually, the food represents a eastern European minority within the Jewish community. I'm personally more interested in Katz's deli and don't really care if 2nd Ave goes the way of the dinosaurs.
Katz's is next. It will be replaced by another Avalon Chrystie-like megamonstrosity with an Olive Garden.
and I so wanted a huge corn beef sandwhich for lunch today.
Oh man... the 2nd Avenue Deli has the best mushroom barley soup. (And their pastrami ain't bad either.) I was really depressed when I heard about this on the news this morning -- I'd occasionally shlep down from Inwood to eat there.
I guess the sympathy over Abe Lebewohl's murder has finally run out.
this sucks- best kosher deli in the city. the quality of their pastrami is outstanding. I hope they find a better landlord (though if they move to the uws i will be nearly as devastated)
Maybe that music club on the Bowery and the 2 Ave Deli can join forces to raise rent, maybe changing the name to SeeBeHeBe's.
Let's just force out all the landmarks in the city by tripling and quadrupling their rent and then turn them into expensive condos for wall street types making 100+k a year only.
somebody call Bloomberg to intervene in this atrocity.
The best reason to leave the Jewish safety of the UWS. The kosher question is up for debate. I understood it could nto get kosher certification only because it was open on Shabbat.
So who goes to the Second Avenue Deli to eat *tuna*? Oy.
It's like ordering a hamburger at a Chinese restaurant.
Just so we're clear:
2nd Ave Deli = Not Kosher.
Katz Deli = Not Kosher Either.
Considering that the 2nd Ave Deli charges more than a buck PER MATZOH BALL (who charges by the ball?) I suspect they can afford that rent. They just don't want to.
i thought 2nd ave deli was kosher. that's what they told me when i asked them to cater an event for me, an event attended by mostly kosher-keeping people.
but more to the point, $33k is insane. does anyone know the square footage of 2nd ave deli? pretty soon the only restaurants left in the city will be either huge chains or really pricey restaurants which avg people can't afford. for cheap quality food, i guess we will need to go to the outer boroughs, even though i heard that rent there has been driving great cheap restaurants out. e.g. uncle king's on roosevelt in flushing, i heard, just recently closed because the rent was just too much (i think around $28k/month). that place has been around for like 25 years!
Apparently the Lebewohl family operates on the Hilly Kristal model- operate a profitable business for decades but never invest in your own infrastructure so that rent increases can't kill your family's golden goose.
They probably could have bought the whole block in 1973 for $100,000.
I used to go there before I stepped over from the dark side and became a vegetarian. It is a shame that these cultural things that have been the fabric of the city for decades close because of rent hikes or greedy landlords.
friend NNY: even if they had bought their building in 1973 they would still be confronted with the choice of leasing the space to someone else for $33k. Opportunity costs are real. The problem of real-estate costs driving out interesting commerce is systemic; it doesn't make sense to pin blame on small business owners.
Say it ain't so! I'd choose a permanent transit strike to life without the Twin Double.
Talk about the Al Goldstein touch of death.
Where will he work now?
Kosher? Their website says it is, unless Lebewohl's a liar.
"friend NNY: even if they had bought their building in 1973 they would still be confronted with the choice of leasing the space to someone else for $33k. Opportunity costs are real. The problem of real-estate costs driving out interesting commerce is systemic; it doesn't make sense to pin blame on small business owners."
friend smells: I would say the oppty. cost of business failure due to the inability to find a suitable location is very, very high. Higher than the forgone rent that could be earned by leasing the space to another firm. How much is the 2nd Ave Deli brand REALLY worth? There are many competitors, few barriers to entry, etc. Customer captivity is zero, everyone will just go to Katz's instead.
It is very difficult to drive out interesting commerce when said commerce owns its own real estate. Doubly so when said real estate was undervalued over a 20 year period, providing a prime buying opportunity.
The lesson of CBGB and 2nd Ave Deli for small business owners is clear: save up and buy your real estate. Leases don't mean shit.
Russ & Daughters own their own building, and the upper floors were kept vacant for DECADES while the neighborhood struggled. They now live in and rent out very expensive apartments above the store and are poised to capitalize on a rapidly gentrifying clientele, allowing them to raise prices and increase profits. I suppose they could also rent out the storefront but they probably get a lot of utility from being in the Appetizing business.
"I agree with Anonymous-it's not kosher and actually, the food represents a eastern European minority within the Jewish community."
Correct. Exactly like the vast majority of--now long gone--Lower East Side Jewish delis that existed for years. I mean, decades.
Now that the vast majority of old Jewish New York places are gone, people are missing the point that Jewish food does not necessarily mean Kosher in any way. And in all honesty I wish those places were still around.
Now it looks like the few places you can get Jewish food is from the Orthodox owned establishments that will give you a heaping helping of attitude/cold-shoulder if you're not down with them. Ugggh. Welcome to the New New York City!
Man, NYC is becoming a pretty worthless city, and all you Gothamist readers are part of the problem! the only reason people don't die of boredom now in Vanilla City, Whitebreadia is because the only people who can afford to live there are the very perpetually boring people who made it mind-numblingly terrible.
ahahaha! Whatever. It's still better than Jersey, LI, and whatever worse yuppy/hillbilly wastelands that surround the area.
The 2nd Avenue Deli and Katz's are Kosher, but they are not Glatt Kosher. And that is an entirely different discussion.
WNBC reported today on Live at Five that they are indeed Kosher.
You can get a reuben at Katz's (both meat and dairy are involved, folks). It doesn't matter what ruleset of kosherism you're using as your guide -- Katz's is not kosher.
"... the food represents a eastern European minority within the Jewish community."
So what? It was that "minority" that made New York City what it is and provided a noble tradition Jewish culture -- not just food, but literature, theatre and art -- that is renowned worldwide. I realize that New York is a city that is constantly moving forward. But as a 37-year-old who has gone there since I was born, I really hoped that when I reached old age, some things, like 2nd ave. deli would still be there.
"Katz's is not kosher"
And most NYC pizzerias do not sell pizza that comes anywhere close to the authentic Italian pizza. Big deal?
It looks like most people don't understand the uniqueness of NYC Jewish culture. Or even NYC Italian cultire. Or even the venerated NYC chinese restaurant that simply does not exist anymore; most NYC chinese places are take-out holes-in-the-wall.
Enjoy your Teany people! You didn't ask for it, but it's what you want!
I've gotten a Reuben at Katz's so it surely is not Kosher (milk + meat). I belive 2nd Ave Deli is Kosher-Style. I lived a block away for years in the 90's. My building was also bought by Jonas Management of Great Neck. They claimed a gas leak and shut off the gas lines for 8 months, among other horrible things. They forced out about half of the original tennant. At least I got away with a few months rent free.
I've gotten a Reuben at Katz's so it surely is not Kosher (milk + meat). I belive 2nd Ave Deli is Kosher-Style. I lived a block away for years in the 90's. My building was also bought by Jonas Management of Great Neck. They claimed a gas leak and shut off the gas lines for 8 months, among other horrible things. They forced out about half of the original tennant. At least I got away with a few months rent free.
I've gotten a Reuben at Katz's so it surely is not Kosher (milk + meat). I belive 2nd Ave Deli is Kosher-Style. I lived a block away for years in the 90's. My building was also bought by Jonas Management of Great Neck. They claimed a gas leak and shut off the gas lines for 8 months, among other horrible things. They forced out about half of the original tennant. At least I got away with a few months rent free.
I've gotten a Reuben at Katz's so it surely is not Kosher (milk + meat). I belive 2nd Ave Deli is Kosher-Style. I lived a block away for years in the 90's. My building was also bought by Jonas Management of Great Neck. They claimed a gas leak and shut off the gas lines for 8 months, among other horrible things. They forced out about half of the original tennant. At least I got away with a few months rent free.
From NYTIMES
"The rent increase is actually built into the lease that Mr. Lebewohl negotiated with the previous owners 15 years ago. The new owners have volunteered to come down $3,000 in the new rent, but no further."
Apparently Jack Lebewohl priced himself out of the market!!
Disbelief is the only word to describe this. The 2nd Ave. Deli is a living landmark, not to mention the home of the best chopped liver I've ever tasted. I hope these new health codes don't mean they'll stop hanging salamis in the kitchen! As far as the Jewishness debate of the food, it's Americanized Ashkenazi Jewish style food. There are Jewish communities in other parts of the world (e.g. Sepharadim) that have never heard of chopped liver, kugel, or kreplach, and that doesn't mean their cuisine or culture is any less Jewish and vice versa.
I grew up in the East Village and still live there. When I was a teenager, my friends and I would go to the 2nd Avenue Deli and order french fries, a cherry soda, and eat all the free pickles on the table. Back then, it was only a tiny store with about 6 tables. It is a shame that the East Village is being invaded by outsiders who have no concept of history or tradition. I am not Jewish, but my childhood was part of this multicultural part of the city, along with Italian pizza parlors, Chinese restaurants, Puerto Rican bodegas, and Jewish delis, all being replaced by Star Bucks. It is really a shame.
We at Mill Basin Kosher Deli in Brooklyn wish the 2nd Ave Deli best wishes in finding a new location. With the dwindling amount of Kosher Deli's in New York City even we at the Mill Basin Kosher Deli in brooklyn feel bad. We Kosher Deli owners are getting lonely
fuck that this deli betta open again im diein for a matzoh ball soup and my job back
fuck that this deli betta open again im diein for a matzoh ball soup and my job back
fuk that this deli betta open again im diein for a matzoh ball soup and my job back
This is more than a tragedy. And to definitely answer the question, yes, the 2nd Avenue Deli is (was) kosher. As the son of a rabbi who grew up in a kosher home, I can swear to that. Katz's, on the other hand, is as trayf (unkosher) as it comes (though they do have the superior pastrami). Oyyy...don't forget the Molly Picon room in the back, heralding the Yiddish/Jewish community's first true cross-cultural superstar! And the tongue...and the amazing chicken soup with farfel...
(sob)
Hey guys dont worry you still have mendy's from seinfeld on 34th street, we have been around for 13 years and have delicious food at a good price unlike 2nd avenue. And just to clear things up 2nd avenue is not glatt kosher and katz is not kosher at all, we are glatt kosher and have five other mendys in the city
you can go to mendysdeli.com for more info
we live in the building of the 2nd Avenue Deli..it is so sad to see the place go, even though we never actually got around to eating there....they have been tearing it apart in the last few days... :(
now we are wondering what happens when our lease expires in a few months...I heard these bastards are putting up the rents in most apartments and forcing people out.
so, i can see myself being homeless in a few months...we already pay a fortune in rent...cannot afford another grand ontop!
I am from San Francisco, I visit New York for the 2nd Ave. Deli, I don't think New Yorkers understand how few Jewish Deli's are left. There are none in the San Francisco area,, there are only two in LA and I have made trips there just to hit Nate and Al's. Katz's Deli doesn't hold a candle to the 2nd Ave, I ate there twice on my last trip, the Matzoh Balls were cold both times, and the sandwich maker shook a tip can in my face before he would take my order. Let me know how to help reopen the 2nd Avenue Deli, It must be saved.
By the way they did consider themselves Kosher I asked them the last time I was in there. My 10 year old daughter came home from Hebrew school with the news of there closing, our temple in Redwood City CA is in mourning.
First Wolf's, now 2nd Avenue Deli. What is the world coming to.
I am in total denial...NO WAY....where is Donald TRUMP...when you need him...
We have always ordered the deli mustard and other foods from the 2nd ave. deli and found out they were closing when I called to place an order. We are totally distraught because we can't get the deli mustard. Does anyone know where I can get it or who the supplier was?
I do not live in NYC but visit often. I always go to the 2ND AVE DELI when I'm in town. Can anyone direct me to another great deli in NYC?
Thanks,
Dan
As a brit who loves coming to America, I have been to Katzs' NYC 6 times over the last 10 years, it's clear that the only way you can survive is to run these places as a worthwhile tourist attraction. The city should provide a reduced rent to help retain an important part of American cutlure that is dissapearing fast. How much rent would McDonalds pay but I suppose they would buy the plot outright...
pantyhose fun art of pantyhose
hushcrnoes
Kosher smosher who cares!!!!! 99.9% of Kosher food is inedible anyway...And the pastrami was way better than Katz's Although they could both use a MAJOR CLEAN UP!!! I just close my eyes and pray!
I called today and found out they will be reopening in the summer not on 2nd ave any more but 33 and lex was what they told me.
Askanazy food is more tasty anyway and far more popular in NY I believe. I dont think most NY ers have ever had shephardic foods. Excuse the spelling errors Im not Jewish I just love Food !!
Ill be within t he first 10 customers after opeing im sure! I cant wait.
I am sad that Kosher and Kosher-style delis are going the way of extinction. My great-grandparents lived near Tompkins Park (Square) and my bubbe remembered going there and to other delis and food merchants up and down 2nd Ave with her parents. Now I live in Seattle, where there are only two delis, one kosher and the other kosher-style. The kosher guy is from Israel, and the kosher-style is a chain from Detroit. The cuisine is still in place in homes here, but the restaurants are disappearing. very sad indeed.
Did the Deli ever reopen?
I lived 5 years in NY and frequented Second Avenue Deli often. I'm visiting NY next week and hoped to go there again.