December 20, 2005
Transit Strike Nitty Gritty: The Offer
So, why did the union reject the MTA's last offer? The MTA was now offering 3% raise increase for year 1 of a 3 year contract, then 4%, and 3.5% for the final year, up 1.5% from last week's offer - which is still much less than what the Transport Workers Union wanted (8% for each of the 3 years), but the TWU had signaled they might agree to it. However, the pensions and benefits were the sticking point, and this was what the MTA was asking for:
The authority dropped its demand to raise the retirement age for a full pension to 62 for new employees, up from 55 for current employees. But the authority proposed that all future transit workers pay 6 percent of their wages toward their pensions, up from the 2 percent that current workers pay. [Via the NY Times]This certainly marks TWU president Roger Toussaint as fierce and not backing down, something most of his union wanted from him.
What do you think? The Times also looked at how the union is "uniquely aggrieved." The Daily News' Juan Gonzalez calls Toussaint a "masterful tactician." And Amy's Robot has iPod- and PSP-combatible audio and video footage of Toussaint's 3AM speech - thanks, ADM!
And have you seen the TWU Local 100 ads? The one we saw had the Patrolmen's Benvolence (aka the police union)'s Patrick Lynch supporting the TWU, while there's another with two older ladies. Interesting media blitz!
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How could anyone praise Toussaint? The man is going to bankrupt his union, screw his workers, paralyze the city and all because of his millitant ego and inability to negotiate. You knew from Day One he was itching to strike, and anything less than his full obscene demands were going to lead to this. Anyone who is surprised is a fool. This is why people hate unions, and why what Ronnie did to the air traffic controllers looks much more palatable nowadays. How could any person who loves New York City deal it such a crushing blow. Fire the non skilled workers, and force the union down by huge fines that bankrupt it, and let's get back to our regular lives.
You can't scare me, I'm stickin' to the union -- I'm stickin' to the union -- I'm stickin' to the union 'till the day I die!
stick to the union and die unemployed and broke.
boo hoo..."screwthetwu" couldnt get to his/her corporate job this morning.
p.s. ronald reagan burns in hell.
i dont think most office employees have much to worry about since this is 'slack' week, the week before xmas
the ones that will have problems are those who work those hourly jobs whether in sales, or food service, etc
Damn straight slack week, it's like you get paid for doing what you did during college: drinking coffee spiked with booze while reading the chattering class foam about the same old crap.
Could someone please find out how much these strikers make?
What does the average bus driver make?
How about a subway motorman? A conductor?
I'd like to retire at 55, too. Just wondering how well paid these people are. They have health benefits during retirement, pensions and all that good stuff, but what are the base salaries?
Anyone else hear any counter-proposals from the TWU?
I heard the MTA revising its proposals, but the TWU stuck to its exact same demands. That's, ah, not bargaining. Demands for a 24% pay increase over three years and retirement age down to 50--try not to giggle--that's extended posturing before a pre-ordained strike.
The Times article, btw, does nothing to back up the "Uniquely Aggrieved" claim in its lede. A sociologist claims that "abuse from the public" is "more hurtful" for MTA employees. Really? How do you quantify that? How did you measure it?
Gothamist's post and many other articles besides didn't draw a distinction between benefits packages for current workers vs. future hires. The negotiations were mostly if not exclusively about the latter. (Other public employees have multi-tiered benes as well, depending on deals in place at the time of their hire.) That slightly shades the "they want to take away our benefits" pabulum.
I know a lot of us loathe the MTA or want to instinctively side with labor in any strike, but I only slightly hyperbolize when I say I'd like to see the city step on the TWU's spine on this one.
Pedalinthechill --
an article quoting MTA figures, carried on on Bloomberg News this morning, included the following:
"Subway operators earned an average of $62,438 a year, including overtime, under the previous three-year contract, the MTA said. Train conductors averaged $53,000, subway booth clerks
$50,720, and bus drivers $62,551, the state agency said. The MTA wasn't able to provide the average amount of overtime."
These seem like rather decent incomes to me, even considering the costs of living in Tha Big City. Pension plan? Gravy. That the MTA presented amended proposals while the TWU did not, observed by Pliny, is very interesting.
TWU has no moral, legal, political, or logical ground to stand on. They are wrong -- plain wrong, and should feel the pain of the 8 million New Yorkers who will suffer due to the TWU's stupidity and irresponsible behavior.
This ain't exactly a sweatshop strike.
"These seem like rather decent incomes to me"
Decent? I'd say quite more than decent. More than many of my friends make. Any moron without a high school degree can drive a bus, and they shouldn't be paid $62k to do it.
$62,000 average salary w/ offered 10.5% raises over next 3yrs -plus you can retire at 55, and no healthcare contribution.
Yet you'll still have a bunch of idiots saying the union had no choice but to strike. There is a certain segment of this city I will never understand
How long do you think this will last? last strike lasted 11 days...i finished my finals but now i can't get home from the upper west side back to bklyn
Since the strike was illegal, I'm wondering if I can sue the TWU in small claims court to recoup the additional expense of getting into and out of the city.
I'm sure there's some technicality that says I can't, but as a guy who makes signifigantly less then an MTA employee (and without a pension, AND contributing to my healthplan) I'm not as rich as those that can afford to strike when they don't get 24% raises.
boohoo, i have to carry a cello...
boohoo, i have to wear a suit...
boohoo, i have to walk from bpc to tsq.
boohoo, i live in my upper east side high rise and do not understand the meaning of working hard and laboring over a dolloar.
boohoo, i am a neoliberal, capitalist american pig who is self centered and can only see as far as the nose on my face.
boohoo, robots will rule the world and i am too a cog in the wheel of the american capitalistic, money hungry, greedy republican terror machine.
to repeat,
mei, you are retarded.
I had no problem walking to work today. It has nothing to do with that.
It has more to do with the union and its members facing reality:
You SHOULD get a raise. A performance based raise. Since when should anyone get a raise based on how long you have been doing your job? Does that prove anything about the quality of your work?
Retiring at 62 instead of 55? Oh - and you get paid when you are retired? What is this pension you speak of? Most of us have to make decisions for ourselves, invest and/or save for our future/retirement.
Entitlement breeds laziness.
I had no problem walking to work today. It has nothing to do with that.
It has more to do with the union and its members facing reality:
You SHOULD get a raise. A performance based raise. Since when should anyone get a raise based on how long you have been doing your job? Does that prove anything about the quality of your work?
Retiring at 62 instead of 55? Oh - and you get paid when you are retired? What is this pension you speak of? Most of us have to make decisions for ourselves, invest and/or save for our future/retirement.
Entitlement breeds laziness. And Mei is retarded.
Mei did hit the nail on the head: lugging around that bigass cello of mine was a bitch! Man, what was I thinking? I have been wasting my life. I think I'll go hawk it for a bike, and my suit a huge chain I can wear around my waist, then maybe head down to Thompkin's Square Park and eat me some Food Not Bombs glop, yo.
Remember the Air Traffic Controllers during the Reagan years? I suggest that the MTA terminate everyone who walked off the job. Screw their Union. A bus driver union? Gimme a freakin' break. With unemployment the way it is, I'm confident that NYC and MTA can find replacements and have all the buses and subways rolling again within a few days.
From what I've observed over the years, the citizens of NYC are very resilient to anything you can throw at them. I seriously doubt that NYC will shut down because the rush hour traffic is a lot heavier now. To hell with those uneducated, selfish, bastards. 24% pay increase over 3 years? Retire at 50? Geez....
Fire 'em all!!
Just my $0.02,
Chris
Here is a list of "Strike Zones" where you can throw your rotten fruit and vegetables, rocks, bricks, bottles, and see how many transit workers your can hit. Have fun!! See you there!
BRONX
Dyer Avenue
Gunhill Depot: 1910 Bartow Avenue
Pelham Barn/Westchester Sq. Yard: Eastchester Rd. & Water Street
Zerega CMF: 750 Zerega Avenue
180th Street Yard: 1151 East 180 Street
West Farms Depot: 1100 East 177th Street
Concourse Yard: 3119 Jerome Avenue
Jerome Yard: Jerome Ave. & Van Courtlandt Ave.
239th St. Barn: 4570 Furman Avenue
240th St. Barn: 5911 Broadway
241st St. White Plains Road. (RTO)
242nd St. Yard
Eastchester Depot: Interstate 95 at Exit 13
Parkchester (RTO)
Yonkers Depot: 59 Babcock St.
Tiffany Iron: 1170 Oakpoint Avenue
Woodlawn 1 & 9 Lines (RTO)
BROOKLYN
370 Jay St./130 Livingston
Bedford
Bergen St. Shop
Conway
Crosstown-Box St.
East New York Depot/Shop: 1700 Bushwick Avenue
Flatbush Ave / Nostrand (RTO)
Flatbush Depot: Flatbush & Utica Ave.
Coney Island Yard: Avenue X & McDonald
Ulmer Park Depot: Cropsey Ave. & Bay
Jackie Gleason Depot: 871 Fifth Avenue
Pitkin Yard: 1434 Sutter Avenue
Livonia Shop: 824 Linwood Shop
Atlantic Ave/Bergen Street Shop: 1415 Bergen Street
Linden Shop: 1500 Linden Blvd.
Cozine: 50 Cozine Avenue
Rockaway Parkway Carnarsie L-line
Stillwell Ave.
QUEENS
71st & Continental G,R & V lines (RTO)
179th St. F-line (RTO)
College Point Depot: 128-15 28th Avenue
Corona Barn: 126-53 Willets Point Blvd.
Ditmars Blvd. N & W lines (RTO)
Fresh Pond Depot: 56-99 Fresh Pond Road
Jamaica Barn: 7815 Grand Central Parkway
Jamaica Depot: 114-15 Guy R. Brewer Blvd.
Main St. 7-line (RTO)
Maspeth CMF:
Parsons / Archer E & J lines (RTO)
Triboro Coach Depot: 8501 24th Avenue
Woodside Electronic Shop: 33-33 54th Street
MANHATTAN
34th St. - Penn Station *
Chambers St. Flagging Quarters (RTO)
Grand Central Station (RTO)
Kingsbridge Depot: 4065 10th Avenue
207th St. Yard: 3961 10 Avenue
Manhattanville Depot: 666 West 133rd St.
100th Street Depot: 1552 Lexington Avenue at 100th Street
Michael J. Quill Depot: 525 11th Avenue
West 53rd St Power/RCC: 53rd St. btw 8/9
126th Street Depot: 2460 Second Avenue
148th St. Lenox Ave.
168th St. C Line
Why is everyone is so unsympathetic? If you think it's such a great job, you should apply for one.
The MTA's final offer essentially maintains status-quo because the pay increase is offset by the additional amount contributed to the pension:
If they had to contribute 2% to the pension now, they take home 98% (less all the other taxes). If they get a 4% raise and contribute 6% to the pension, they take home 97.76% (104%*.94).
the pay the were getting was generous enough before. there was no shortage of people trying to get at thsoe jobs. and they should be paying toward pensions if they are still able to retire at 55, if not them, the tax payers and riders will eat that cost as these people sit on retirement for 30+ years.
hey -
remember nicaragua and el salvador during the reagan years and how reagan openly supported the rape, torture, and murder of thousands of people?
Don't forget the MTA has a BILLION dollar surplus!
So I'm a boohoo-er because I stayed at my BF's on th upper east side and took a cab that overcharged me for "crossing 3 zones" and now I can't afford to go home - the uppermost park of the bronx (by those depot's afformentioned) or even my Bf's..?
Are the poorest who have to take a day off even though they can't afford it the boohoo-ers? Your porters and doormen, and clean-up crew?
The students who are told by CUNY and other college's to "make every effort" to take your finals and wait half an hour for your instructor b/c you'll fail if you don't show up but they don't get FIRED if they don't show up, wasting your poor time?
Take that Mei and "walktowork"
Hey killthebosses:
I think you meant Reagan tried to stop the lawless communists from killing and raping like they have done in every country they have ruled.
100 million people have died as a result of communism since 1917. That is your legacy.
Hey UrbanLatinFemale, Hunter College at least (I don't know about other CUNY schools) is pushing back final exams until January if the finals scheduled for that day are affected by the strike.
I go to Queens College, and they aren't pushing back the finals, as a matter of fact, a lot of us come from remote places in The Bronx, Queens and Long Island, even Brooklyn.. Hunter is one of the good schools who is more understanding..
About this Communism / Reaganism.. shouldn't the focus be more on our governor, mayor, city council and MTA? Considering the way the MTA has screwed their paying customers.. (new trains vs new lights etc) we should be boycotting them.. No?
Mei is a complete and utter moron. The bus and subway system is more than just a way to get to work. Among other things, people need it to get to hospitals to get treatment or visit ill or dying relatives, not to mention the million and one other purposes everybody needs transportation for. Apparently, Mei can't imagine anything larger than his/her tiny life and inconveniences. "Can only see as far as the nose on my face"? Pot, kettle, black.
62,000 is not an average salary there
it includes overtime
in order to compare, use the 40 hr week
this yields 46,000 average salary
or
THE Janitors gets paid 40 grand a year
The Token clerks get 45, 000
and bus driver could do 50,000 before mandatory overtime