July 22, 2005
Welcome, Subway Bag Checks by the NYPD!
Good morning, fellow commuters. In this new era of pro-active policing, we'd like to know your experience was taking the subway this morning (or last night, as we hear some searching starting then) - were you checked, did you see others checked, did it take any longer. Overall, subway riders realize they need to be checked and are okay with it, even though civil liberties groups question the legality of doing so. According to the Daily News, searches at Union Square took 5 to 30 seconds. Many of our readers felt similarly yesterday, even if some pointed out it "security theater": It's sort of like Homeland Security telling people to buy duct tape in case of biological attacks; what the duct tape will really do in the end, but if it makes you feel better to have some duct tape, by all means, buy some.
The NYPD says they will not be racially profiling (in fact, most of the riders' concerns are whether or not the police will target certain people more) as they embark on these random subway bag checks, but they are sort of fashion profiling: The NYPD is going to focus on rucksacks and bags big enough for explosives. If these subway bag checks persist, expect a run on clear plastic bags, like the department store workers use. Experts do think this is a good move, in order to lower the probability that someone will carry a bomb, but some critics point out that there are other subway areas that are not secure, like the railyards in Coney Island. However, it's unclear whether or not police horses will be conducting searches as well.
Photograph by the AP
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Maybe I should bring my hiking backpack and fill it with those snake in a can things, so when they search me....BOIIIINNNGGG! That would be funny. Or not.
Are they only posted at big stations? I didn't see anyone when I entered or exited the train this morning.
Over in Pittsburgh, they had a dog sweep randomly on one of the trollys. Took about 1 minute, really wierd.
There were no police officers doing searches on the uptown 6 train platform at Canal Street. I saw police doing searches of folks entering the subway at the Grand Central 6. There were also officers posted at the gates of all in-bound metronorth trains doing searches.
on the whiteboard in the booth at the greenpoint ave station last night, there was a sign that said "starting 7/22, all bags are subject to search." well, something like that.
they say that you are free to not consent to the search and leave the subway. but they also say that they may be doing searches on trains. is it possible to not consent to a search while you're on a train -- will you have to get off at the next stop?
doesn't make a lot of sense.
They made an announcement on the uptown R train that "as of July 22nd, all bags are subject to random search" or something like that. The whole car erupted in raucous applause! Not really.
The police officers are supposed to be checking bags before you enter through the turnstiles, so if you declined to be checked, then you wouldn't be able to enter the subway. The flaw in that plan is that the person could probably go to another subway entrance and try his/her luck there. I thought that when I entered my subway at West 72nd Street and Broadway - no police officers at the southern entrance, but there were at the northern entrance. Super strange.
And I didn't see any police officers as I walked from the 1/2/3 to the N/R/Q/W or at Prince Street. Perhaps they were closer to certain turnstiles.
Let's not kid ourselves. We know whose bags the police are going to be searching. I don't mind it............
How long before random searches in Union Square, Times Square, Downtown Williamsberg, Grand Central, Penn Station, anywhere in Midtown, anywhere Downtown...why not right...if we want to follow this policy to its logical conclusion.
Also - what's up with the NYTimes bull shit headline of "It's Time for Tougher Scrutiny, Many Subway Riders Concede" who the hell are all these "Many"?
I also thought of the snakes in a can idea...but make it your whole backpack.
FUCK THE PO LICE FUCK THE PO LICE FUCK THE PO LICE
Its all a show to try and make yuppies and tourist feel better. It is absolutely ineffective.
I saw a bag check table set up at Whitehall this morning. Didn't see anyone getting searched as I passed by, though.
A guy calling into WNYC this morning said he saw people getting searched as they EXITED a subway train at Penn Station. WTF?
So, how long do you think these searches will last? Two weeks? A month? More?
I don't like the idea of bag searches, but I can't think of a better idea, can you? this week's New Yorker article on the NYPD has really heightened my appreciation for the whole organization and if they're willing to potentially stick their hands in the backpack of a suicide bmber to keep us safe, I think we should lean more towards, "hey thanks, man" and less toward "boiiiing."
hysterical piece on nyc bag searches. enjoy.
Water finds the weakest path and we're on a slippery slope. It's only a matter of time before they start searching people on the street - think about bus stops and the potential for a suicide bomber a la Israel there - or in parks or any other place large numbers of people gather.
Are they going to search jackets and vests? Many suicide bombers wear explosive vests, so how long will it be before the cops are allowed to ask you to open the lining of your down jacket?
This dog idea from Pittsburg sounds pretty good. If a bomb sniffing dog smells something suspicious, I'm okay with that being probable cause for a search. Too much money, you say? How much overtime do you think we'll be doling out. Indefinitely.
It is all a show to annoy sp. Obviously it is working.
>>>FUCK THE PO LICE FUCK THE PO LICE FUCK THE PO LICE
Interesting. My thoughts are fuck the terrorists.
This is a joke. It will last until either NYPD gets bored of it or a bomb actually gets through and NYPD has to admit it's completely ineffective. There's no communication between checkpoints so what's to keep a bomber denied entry from going to the next station and trying again? During the subway rape a few weeks ago, NYPD claimed it couldn't spare the officers to guard each station, and now it's tying up lots of officers in each station. Does that make sense?
And they say they'll arrest anyone carrying contraband. The random nature of the searches and the lack of warrants makes that pretty iffy. Sounds like it could get thrown out of court for illegal search and seizure.
The terrorists are, in fact, winning.
All an excercise in C.Y.A. for the City...
I Wonder: ias any group observing who gets a "Random" Bag search??
In Related piece of news: The House approves renewal of Patriot Act. More Knee Jerk reaction by politicians??
this is what happens when you have freedom hating republicans running the country. freedom erodes. goodbye, eighth amendment. it's very sad.
just because you can't think of a better idea is no justification to throw away civil liberties and waste our money and our police resources with a plan that quite obviously will have no effect. if i can think of a long list of ways to get around this, don't you think that anyone with a real desire to commit a terrorist act can too? the notion that police might discover a bomb in a bag of someone who volunteers to be searched is just pathetic.
we are doing the grunt work for the terrorists all by ourselves. all they have to do is instigate an occasional media frenzy and we start shredding our constitution.
i would agree that dogs don't seem like a bad idea... more effective, they have fewer prejudices than your average cop, and they're less likely to abuse their power.
Well looks like the London police took out one of the suspects back at the subway station... doesn't sound like having the police around is "completely ineffective." If it's too much to ask you to open your bag or even jacket and possibly save lives then maybe you should think about other modes of transportation. After all, no one is making you use the subway...
My only issue right now is i think the police are giving out too much information about their tactics.
I echo, the terrorists HAVE won if we have erroded our civil liberties to such an extent that a flagrent violation of the fourth amendment is met with open arms and puppy kisses.
and to what effect? What will this prevent, if anything?
What bothers me most is that I apparantly live in a country where the populace has such little understanding of the rights enumerated in our Constitution that they willingly, nay enthusiastically sucumb to a slipperly slope towards a complete police state. Not in the name of safety and assuredly not in my name.
No one is saying they don't want more police around. I've appreciated seeing them on the platforms, being vigilant and all that. What I'm saying is that random bag searches, as a pretty obvious breach of the constitution, is too much to ask. Violation of any of my constitutional rights is too much to ask. If you, like most Americans, never bothered to learn anything about the constitution, that's your concern. But I have to ask, if we're not a nation striving towards liberty and individual rights, then what are we? What are we protecting? Our own butts? Isn't there something to be said for displaying bravery in defence of our rights and freedoms (which we are constatntly reminded are the reasons we're being attacked in the first place.
Oh, and if a cop asks to search my bag, I will refuse and walk. (Unless I have enough money to take a cab)
I didn't see any bags being checked at Union Square this morning and NO bags being checked at the L train Bedford stop.
Dear Patriotic American,
The 8th Amendment concerns excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment. Perhaps you are confused.
i think it's foolish of the the NYPD to say they won't be racial profiling. I'm sick of this political correctness. the NYPD can't and will not be effective if they don't racially profile. I'm obviously not saying every person from the middle east is a terrorist, at all, but you've got to take that into consideration when looking for potential dangers.
Yeah, it's not like "People" like Timothy Mcveigh or Terry Nicols Blows thing up
No, wait...
greg, the london police did not catch that suspect because of bag searches. in fact, it sounds as if the cops that caught the guy had been trailing him, not hanging out at the turnstiles. police presence is very different from searching without cause.
SD--I agree that crazy people exist among all races, but these terrorist attacks of late HAVE been people from the middle east...and they have promised to do it again.
An 8:30AM F train, no cops, no bag check. Just having police at busy stations is ridiculous when someone could just get on another stop. It's like the old joke about the guy looking around on the floor of his kitchen. His wife asks him what he's doing?
"I lost my cuff-links in the living room?"
"Then why are you looking for them in the kitchen?"
"The light is better here."
Why, WES, that sounds like a good argument for racial profiling, too.
the london bombers were i think what they call "asian" in the u.k. -- what we call south-asian, indian subcontinent types -- not "middle eastern". makes taking a cab seem risky. ride bikes for homeland security, energy independence. but then what if they bomb critical mass?
Wasn't this how Russia lost the cold war? We bled them to death financially. What is the cost of all these security "upgrades". What percentage of the GDP are we spending on these security efforts...
It is a good point that only having checkpoints at busy stations seems a little silly. Would-be terrorists could just get on at a smaller station and take it where they want to go. Once you're in, you're in.
So I agree that this plan - whether or not you agree with it in terms of civil liberties - is completely useless unless you have random checks at every single station - which seems impossible to me.
Those of you who think this is outrageous, what are you going to do about it? Janine says she'll walk or take a cab. I live in Brooklyn and work in the Bronx. Walking, taking a cab, or grabbing the bus aren't options for me. I don't like having to open my bag to the cops, but I'll do it anyway because...what choice do I have? If you're opposed to this, your best hope is that civil-liberties groups will convince a judge to stop it.
When the 4th Amendment was ratified, people were not blowing themselves up on trains and subways. It is exactly these civil liberatarians that's prevented us from having national ID or central healthcare system. Other countries have successfully implemented it without their citizens complaining about "invasion of privacy."
yah if not for the aclu we'd all have free health care fuck the aclu.
wow. ny'ers and particularly gothamist readers are idiots.
i think bush had the cia bomb the tube so he could take away more of our civil liberties in the US. it's so like germany in the 30's, you're right "welcome"
NYPD is an idiot who is really only good at sticking broomsticks up black people's asses
A police state is indeed where we are headed. As technology improves and alienation grows, the vast potential for nihilist destruction will only increase, necessitating ever more intrusive security measures. this is not about islam, it is about angry people bent on destruction and glory and having the means to acheive it.
there's not much we can do about it except to make the searches more comprehensive and invisible, so at least you don't feel like you're being singled out. The current nypd policy is largely a feel-good effort, very low-tech and ineffective but is a symbol of where we are undoubtedly headed. Perhaps someday cities will be wrapped in a web of invisible bomb-detection rays.
Okay, there are certainly some IV Amendment implications here (though it's not an open-and-shut case - these aren't discretionary searches, allegedly). That said, most New Yorkers wouldn't know a "police state" if it came up and searched their bag. It's offensive to invoke what is a *reality* for many world citizens to make your point.
It is hardly "offensive" to invoke the term "police state" if it is believed that we are heading, ever so slowly, in that direction and it is wished to call attention to this. I don't believe anyone said we are alrady there. random searches are a police state tactic.
You know, I once gave the same diatribe about the government getting too powerful and how many rights were being taken away and how totalitarian the US government was becoming...
...and then my friend from Iran verbally bitch-slapped me and made me realize how fucking self-righteous and whiny I was being. The US isn't a police state. Taking one instance of power going too far (ie, subway bag searches that will no doubt be found unconstitutional in due time) and using it to justify comparing the US government with the Nazis is just as much of a pathetic scare tactic as the ones used by the idiots who drafted and pushed through the Patriot Act. No matter how morally superior to them you might feel, you're using the same justifications.
Hey, Greg, you were so happy that the London police shot a suspect five times at point blank range and said that it proved the police were very effective. What do you have to say now that it's been reported that no weapons, no explosives and no contraband was found on the man they ventilated so well?
Worse yet: According to the British police, He had nothing to do with the Bombings.
Mind you, after 1 successful bombing, followed by another attempted bombing, the Single Police officer who apparently shot him while he was tackled was obviously NOT taking any chances.
Can somebody please tell me why someone with a bomb in their bag would walk up, and consent to have their bag searched rather than turn around and take it somewhere else???
Also;
If someone is carrying around, let's say... a couple of portable Hard Drives (something I do regularly) or a laptop, or anything that could contain an explosive device within it; inside of their bag, do the cops crack these things open?? And if not, then what's the point?
You could put enough C4 and a trigger to kill people into your pants pocket.
And hey.... Remember anthrax?
As far as the racial profiling thing.... East Africans are being blamed for this 2nd set of bombings. There has aslo been talk about countries in West Africa harboring or aiding al qaida operatives, referring to the region as the "next Afghanistan." So are all people of color in this country now to be seen as potential terrorists?
FUCK DA KEVIN WALSH FUCK DA KEVIN WALSH