March 22, 2004
Smoking Ban Turns One
Today marks the first year New York City's smoking ban has been in effect, and the Post reports that health inspectors swing by bars past midnight to make sure ban-flouting bars get nabbed. Famous smoker Fran Leibovitz scoffs, "[The ban is] riddled with hypocrisy...If you're really concerned about air quality and you're living in New York City, then you're an idiot." Yeah, Gothamist gets the idea, but then we're happy to be idiots for being concerned about litter, crime and education and other things that are notoriously tricky to improve in the city. Michael Musto takes the middle ground, saying, "It doesn't seem like the city it once was. But the bright side is that I don't come home smelling like smoke anymore."
The Post actually devotes a fair amount of ink to the ban's anniversary, with an e-mail interview with Mayor Bloomberg ("Besides cleaner air, healthier waiters and bartenders and a growing hospitality industry, New York is the same culturally and financially vibrant city it has always been.") plus talks to a bar owner who says the ban has caused a downturn in his businesses, a patron who likes the ban, and a bartender who is happy not to breathe in secondhand smoke but misses her tips. Gothamist knows of one good thing the ban has brought: A reason to leave the table and talk behind your non-smoking friends' backs.
| 
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
email this
add to facebook
add to del.icio.us
[ report this ]
Smokers REALLY need to get over this ban thing.
[ report this ]
Smokers will never get used to the ban unless they stop smoking. I stand with them though when it comes to smoking in bars. Thats when the ban crossed the line. Now I can't enjoy my cigars in the company of friends while downing shots. >:-(
[ report this ]
And ban gift #2: all the money I have saved on cover charges, overpriced drinks and super snazzy outfits. Instead, my friends and I gather at each others smoke and booze friendly apts. thorought the city. It's way more fun, I don't miss the rest at all. I go out every so often still but you know what? Its so not the same. Maybe when the weather warms up it'll be different story.
By the way: read how Bloomberg turned me into a potential hooker.
[ report this ]
I'm actually more likely to go out more often because I know I won't come home reeking of smoke or feeling like I had indirectly inhaled ten packs of cigarettes. I think the smoking ban just needs more time. A year is not a long time at all.
[ report this ]
I used to smoke regularly, now only when I drink. Even so, I have to say I support the ban. I have no problem stepping outside for a smoke when I want one, even in the cold. In return I am able to breathe well on the nights when I do not want to smoke, and I never go home smelling like Dennis Leary any more.
[ report this ]
I think the smoking ban is bad idea. I am a smoker & I can understand the reasoning behind banning smoking in restaurants & do not oppose that. I understand that smoke can ruin a meal. But I think that banning smoking in all bars is just stupid. Besides my own personal preference, I know that my best tips when I worked in a bar came from smokers, who were more likely to stay longer & drink more. Why the concern for people's lungs in a place where people are ruining their livers?
I think the best solution is more exemptions, keeping some bars smoke-free while allowing smoking in others. Then whatever your preferences, you have somewhere you can have a good time.
[ report this ]
I have said it once I will say it again- the city should sell smoking licenses, let's say $500 a month buys you an exemption from the smoking ban. Thus, you could have bars that allow smoking and bars that are smoke free and the city makes money. Whats wrong with that? The warmer weather will bring a surge of noise complaints.
[ report this ]
On one hand it's made my nightlife much more enjoyable....no more disgusting smelling clothes, no burns, no burning eyes, plus I can actually breathe the next morning. In 20 years we will all look back and view the pre-ban days as being utterly primitive.
On the other hand, it's turned me into a spoiled wuss. I walked into a pub in London last weekend and couldn't stay more than 5 minutes because it was "too smokey" for me.
[ report this ]
Pros: not coming stinking like an ashtray
Cons: where are all the cool kids?
[ report this ]
Pros: not coming home stinking like an ashtray
Cons: where are all the cool kids?
[ report this ]
pro: smoking is so cool now
cons: people incessantly talking about how much they like the ban
[ report this ]
Pros: The spectacle of smokers huddled outside every bar, shivering in the winter wind for another fix, highlights just how pathetic their addiction truly is.
Cons: Having to hold my breath walking in or out of any restaurant in Manhattan.
[ report this ]
ok... do non smokers also not do laundry?? Wash your clothes people, what's this carrying on about smelly clothes. It's called Tide. Meet it.
[ report this ]
After living in NC for a few weeks and going to all the smoke filled bars, I have to say I miss the smoke free environment.
[ report this ]
As a non-smoker, I hate getting constantly ditched by my friends when they want to smoke. (Though I usually get to grab their chairs, which is nice.)
I oppose the ban pretty vehemently because I don't think it's the kind of thing the government should have anything to do with legislating -- I don't see how consumers have a right to a smoke-free drinking environment. It would have made more sense to ban tobacco products altogether; that at least wouldn't have had all that collateral damage in the food and beverage service industry.
[ report this ]
I disagree with the smoking ban.
That being said, you have to look at the issue as a worker's issue. It's not that consumers have a right to a smoke-free drinking/eating environment. The ban is so that workers have a right to a smoke-free working environment.
[ report this ]
Smoking in bars is alive and well in easily accessible sections of Queens. Walked into one Saturday night and found it surprisingly refreshing...until I left and all the smokey goodness came home with me. Yuck.
[ report this ]
"Fran Lebowitz" is how her name is spelled.
[ report this ]
James said: That being said, you have to look at the issue as a worker's issue.
That being said, who has asked the workers? I don't believe there is a consensus among bar staff that the smoking ban is a good thing. Everyone I know who works in bar is grumbling about the ban, either because they are smokers themselves or because tips are down.
Again, I think the best solution would be to have some places be smoke free and some not. That gives a choice to both customers & staff. If people want to make stupid decisions, be it smoking or working in a smoking environment for more money, the government should have no role in those decisions. Mike is right, why should the government be involved in my choice to corrupt my body with cigarettes & alcohol simultaneously?
[ report this ]
I cannot wait for the smoking ban to hit DC. I work in a very popular nightclub and I can tell you the tips may be good, but I would rather have the healthy lungs. I sometimes feel like my daily 2 hour workout is a waste after coming home from the club.
Customers are saving money on cigs and can now buy more drinks or tip higher.
[ report this ]
Jenna... is there no where else for you to work? That seems a little silly to me - if you're so so concerned why not work in an office? A smoke free restaurant? I wonder if we'd all feel as bad for coal miners with coal allergies. No one forces you to work there. Or do they?
[ report this ]
I do work in an office. The bar is my 2nd job. Actually, everyone at the bar holds another job. It's a good way to save money while I'm young and DC is just as expensive to live in as NYC. Did you ever think how inconsiderate smokers are? If I wasn't working I would love to be hanging out in other bars with friends but the smoke in your face sucks. It's nasty. The problem isn't just in bars. No one should be smoking in a doorway. Why would non-smokers want to walk through that? I don't understand why non-smokers should be subjected to someone else's nasty habits.
[ report this ]
How priviledged you must be to assume none of your "nasty habits" are inflicted on others.
[ report this ]
I don't smoke bitch.
[ report this ]
All I'm saying is it would be nice not to have to spend 5 hours surrounded by smoke. Only a non-smoker would understand this of course.
[ report this ]
The smoking ban (I'm against it even though I'm a non-smoker) has already led to a proposal by Mike Bloomberg to impose strict limits on music and noise coming out of all bars and other establishments after 1 AM. All because of the hordes of both smokers and non-smokers chatting loudly outside bar and lounge doors. That's right folks. Our Meddford MA-born mayor wants to turn the city into another boring 9-to-5 Boston! Believe me, I've seen this first hand in many places.
[ report this ]
Bitch?!! Hahahaha... I see you have your end of the argument sewn up nicely. When you can debate like a grown up let me know. I guess one doesn't need to smoke to have a foul mouth.
[ report this ]
I can understand the problem of people coming and going all night to go outside to smoke, but, putting limits on music doesn't really do anything b/c you can't hear the music outside(well, at least not at my club). If people are talking too loudly outside, there's really nothing you can do about that. I do not agree with Bloomberg's noise limits after 1am, but I don't think a smoking ban is going to hurt anyone.
[ report this ]
at least I'm not causing health problems in other people...you obviously don't get it
[ report this ]
I'M RICK JAMES BITCH!
[ report this ]
I'M RICK JAMES BITCH!
[ report this ]
I've already heard of reports about local Boston-idolizing NIMBY's criticizing the mayor for not proposing the noise limits sooner. I still oppose the smoking ban because it's already leading to slippery slope of more government regulations that will further restrict the City that Never Sleeps, just like I mentioned before.
At last count, New Jersey still had no statewide smoking ban.
[ report this ]
Bitching aside, I'm all for not having to Febreze my clothes after visiting a bar.
[ report this ]
Or seriously considering taking a shower while drunk to get the nasty smoke smell out of your hair.
[ report this ]
It's heartwarming too see that now that we no longer smoke in bars, the non smokers have abandonded laundry, soap and showers. Yeah... really makes me feel like I'm missing out. You might want an errant cig or two around to mask the b.o. at this point.
So don't whine about your low tips - seems you'd have little use for them anyway.
[ report this ]
Ari, who are talking about who has the b.o.? Do you smoke to cover up your b.o.? Is that the point you are trying to make? I'm really interested to find out why smoking is so wonderful. Really. Is it the coughing? The yellow teeth? The really cool oxygen tank you get to carry around 20 years from now?
I'd be happy to lose some tips in exchange for healthier lungs. That is the fault of the smoker not leaving more tips, not Bloombergs.
[ report this ]
Jenna... are you 7 years old? It boils down to this:
if something is legal, I have the right to enjoy and take part in it. If you don't like it, we can mutually agree to stay away from each other {done and done}. After all, last I checked I wasn't exhaling into your mouth.
It's legal, it's allowed. Tough.
[ report this ]
uh, ari, if the criterion is legality, then...well...it's not legal. sorry, kid, but it's banned, you see. that means it's against the law, so your argument doesn't make much sense. smoking is only legal in situations, just like you're not supposed to be chugging on the maker's mark while you're behind the wheel of a big-rig.
so why not go back to whining about being single, ok? at least then you're amusing. wait! but first let's get back to the Great B.O. Debate...
[ report this ]
I almost forgot to tell everyone that we now have little kids inhaling the secondhand stuff right on the sidewalks, just outside establishments that kept out anyone 18 or under to begin with. And sooner or later these anti-smoking zealots will go after sidewalk smoking, even in people's homes, and son on and on. It's like a slippery slope that may soon lead to another 18th Amendment banning all tobacco, forcing multitudes of people out of work. We know what happened last time.
[ report this ]
I know there are still spots you can smoke in around the city. I come in about once every two months. Who's got some good ones for me? PLEASE!!!
[ report this ]
Catfight Lover: Uhm... tobacco? Legal. Smoking? Legal. We're talking overall, not where.
Jason: that's what I understand least. Bar employees who despite their bitching and moaning CHOSE to work at a bar {were they too greedy to quit and give up their undeclared tips? Hmmm}. But the family who has to pass my cloud doesn't have the luxury of escaping it. And no, I don't feel guilty, Bloomberg put me in their path, I'd have been happily inside tucked away into a room.
So Jenna, you interminable brat; you choose to work in bar. No one forces you - quit your job or quit your whining. You make as much sense as a flight attendant that would sue for a lower altitude b/c she has a fear of heights. You lose this argument until tobacco is unilaterally banned.
[ report this ]
Ari, I can't quit my job because I need the money. My office job doesn't pay enough. If I could find a job where I didn't have to work at the bar, I would quit. But then I would still be going out every weekend to a smoky bar. So what's the point in quitting when I can make money. All I'm saying is it would be nice for that smoking ban to hit DC. I guess I'm a brat because I would like to have a healthy body. I'm so sorry Ari. And I'm not suing anyone here, just making a legitimate complaint. Why do people in bars HAVE to smoke? It's not attractive.
I'm still waiting for someone to post why smoking is so wonderful. I'm very curious to know. Maybe I'll understand the smokers situation better.
[ report this ]
Smoking is not necessarily wonderful. Neither is jelly. But smoking while drinking? Just sublime. Like PB&J. Some things just go together. I can't exactly tell you why. I'm not a physiologist. Let's just talk it up to biology, mmmkay? (I am still ok with the idea of stepping outside to get my fix though. Nothing wrong with legislatively forced courtesy now and then.)
[ report this ]
Was speaking with a bartender just this past weekend, as a handful of people surrepitiously smoked. She was v. pleased with the ban: didn't have to wash sweaters (which were necessary since the bar was phyiscally proximate to the door of the establishment), felt better after work, and even quit smoking as a result. I have asked all my regular bartenders, and they preferred the smoke free enviroment, and some did note a drop off in tips. But, anecdotally, and statisically, less revenue at bars might be as much an affect of an anemic economy (and the worst affect on tips at my favorite bar was the rent increase that caused a 20% increase in drink costs). I'm an occassional social smoker who resented the ban in principle initially, but now love the acutal affect (you know, air). And I talk to more people since the dynamic of having to move around, see people outstide, to smoke, creates a sense of solidarity.
[ report this ]
I just returned to NYC after a nice stay in Amsterdam. Let me say that there was something very relieving about a government that doesn't constantly tell people NO YOU CAN'T DO THIS, NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT. This is why the smoking ban is wrong.
Remember, the word "ban" isn't synonymous with the word "freedom." Cutting freedom is a huge price to pay just to make clothes smell better after a night out.
Newsflash, people: musicians and artists smoke. I can tell you firsthand that the smoking ban has been negatively affecting NY's unique culture, beyond simple tips and bar revenue.
What's the point of having an artist's haven when the artists aren't even allowed to be natural inside? Smoking is cultural. Think about when you're at a show and the colored lights are on the lead singer--there used to be a nice, foggy trail of light due to the ambient cigarette smoke. Now it has been reduced to a stark, dry, lifeless scene. Well, at least your clothes don't smell like smoke. Happy now?
[ report this ]
No, not happy yet.
[ report this ]
when you ask: "Well, at least your clothes don't smell like smoke. Happy now?", you should add at least one of the following:
(1) Well, at least you'll live longer now...
(2) Well, at least the alveoli in your lungs won't turn a sick black color and prematurely decompose...
(3) Well, at least you won't be a burden to your state's health care system in a few years.
And to answer your question, yeah, frankly i'm really happy about that.
as for artists especially feeling the ban, most of my friends are writers and musicians and they seem to be doing just peachy. if the musicians you mentioned seem especially victimized, i can gladly teach them to play another instrument, the world's smallest violin. seems like they're already good at it, so it'd be a short lesson.
[ report this ]
Jenna, you are a moron. You talk about how you are all healthy and want a healthy environmet- and your job entails pouring poison for people. Get a grip. Your arguements are facile and lame. People like to do bad/self destructive things and you cant stop that. So take your self rightous self back in your bar and get back to destroying peoples livers. Be-ach. PS- spend some time in NYC before making comparisons between our bar scenes.
[ report this ]
Max,
1) Ever heard of 2nd-hand smoke? Just b/c I'm a bartender doesn't mean that I have to enjoy the smoke around me. A bar can be a healthy environment. You speak as though pouring drinks is like working for the devil. I do cut people off by the way. I have always hated being around smokers. Are bartenders and bouncers not allowed to have an opinion about this?
2) I've spent plenty of time in NYC and enjoy it very much. I'm not sure where I made any comparisons b/t the two cities on their bar scenes.
3) It doesn't matter that I work in a bar, I hate it when I go out to other bars on my nights off and I have to breathe in the smoke.
I guess now I'm a brat AND a bitch for hating smoke.
btw, Vega, been to Amsterdamn. What a waste of a plane ticket and hotel room. That city was so disgusting. Their government should tell them to do something about cleaning up.
[ report this ]
Jenna... maybe if you actually WORKED at your job instead of commenting all day they'd pay you more. Time for you to be quiet and keep your opinions in DC. With you. Thank goodness. Max's point was dead on, you make your money off dispensing liquor, not healthy last I hear. You're such a pathetic hypocrite, if I met you I'd purposely blow smoke in your infantile bratty face.
[ report this ]
This dispute is not over. Bloomberg's smoking ban I believe is only a first step towards his efforts to Bostonize the Big Apple and further destroy its famous nightlife. He recently tried to impose a strict noise ban from all night establishments after 1 AM, due partly to the smokers chatting outside in the streets. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before he calls for strict occupancy laws limiting the number of patrons in any establishment.
I've been up to Boston and I can tell you that it has nothing even resembling a nightlife. That's probably what Mike Bloomberg and his supporters want.
Also did I forget to mention that there are now anti-smoking zealots calling for a unilateral ban on all tobacco products nationwide?
[ report this ]
I don't know what kind of fantasy world some of you may be living in, thinking that artists and musicians don't smoke. I found these in a few minutes on Google:
The Beatles
Vincent Van Gogh
David Bowie and Lou Reed
John Lydon
Jim Foetus
Bob Dylan
Richard Hell
And some of you keep forgetting: the issue is not whether or not a smoking ban is good thing, it's about whether it ought to be a LAW. A ban is a censorship of behavior.
I personally wish people would stop drinking alcohol, since it leads to hundreds of thousands of more deaths and injury to innocent people (drunk driving, rage, aggravated rapes, et cetera), but I'll be damned if I'd support a law banning alcohol, because it goes against the basic principle of liberty and personal responsibility.
Since people here keep arguing opinions, I say it's high time for some hard, verifyable facts:
Annual intentional tobacco use-related deaths (firsthand):
344,000
(source: American Lung Association www.lungusa.org)
Annual obesity-related and sedentary lifestyle-related deaths:
300,000
(source: Journal of the American Medical Association jama.ama-assn.org)
Annual alcohol-related deaths:
110,000
(source: National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism www.niaaa.nih.gov)
Annual falling deaths:
16,600
(source: National Safety Council www.nsc.org)
Annual food-poisoning deaths:
5,000
(source: www.cdc.gov)
Annual drowning deaths:
4,100
(source: National Safety Council www.nsc.org)
Annual fire/burn deaths:
3,700
(source: National Safety Council www.nsc.org)
Annual secondhand smoke deaths:
3,000
(source: American Lung Association www.lungusa.org)
Read the numbers carefully. Firsthand smoke obviously kills. However, take a good look at the stats for secondhand smoke (and yes, the stats are from the American Lung Association). The secondhand smoke deaths are actually less than freak-accident deaths such as food poisoning, drowning and fire. Simply walking down the stairs of your tenement building will give you a 500% more chance of dying than spending time in a smoky bar. Considering the facts, eating a late-night meal at the local diner seems downright risky; if at first you survive the risk of food poisoning, you have a ten-THOUSAND percent more chance of dying from its nutritional content.
I spared you all the statistical possibilities of dying by shark bite, struck by lightning or obliterated by a meteor, despite the fact that secondhand smoking is nearly in the same category.
I'm glad I have such a good-natured government to protect me from the scourge of secondhand smoke. God bless the smoking ban, and God bless America.
[ report this ]
oh, ok, I'm not allowed an opinion b/c I work in a bar. Got it. I'll let all the other non-smoking bartenders know that they can't complain anymore.
[ report this ]
I think I'll start lying and say I love it when people smoke in front of me. After all, my opinion is wrong. There's no point in arguing this anymore.
[ report this ]
Jenna--don't worry, your opinion is allowed. You're allowed to hate smoking and smokers.
The reason why you've been getting a lot of flak on this board is because you think a hardened law is okay to curb something you personally find annoying. You have no regard to actual scientific statistics, property ownership rights or the fundamental concept of freedom. Can you spell fascism?
I personally found your posts annoying, since they were based on insults and had absolutely no good arguments on why there should be laws against SECONDhand smoke when other legal activies are far more statistically dangerous. And other people on this board have supported the lie that secondhand smoke is super-dangerous, despite the fact that the American Lung Association has clear numbers proving that the risk is statistically nonexistant.
Speaking of banning things just because we don't like 'em: Should I support a ban on annoying posts simply becau