December 3, 2003
Restroom Rights For Women
Two Brooklyn City Council members are fighting for restroom equity, proposing that all new construction and renovation work (including auditoriums, stadiums, dance halls, and bars) would require more bathrooms for women, to alleviate the long lines. Their bill says, "Every woman can recall a situation when she has waited in a long line to use the bathroom while there was no line for a neighboring men's restroom. [T]he absence of sufficient women's bathrooms in many places of public assembly, and the resultant lines for women's bathrooms, is one of the most blatant, demeaning, and visible forms of gender discrimination in our society." States like California, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas and Washington have enacted restroom equity laws as well.
All this makes sense to Gothamist. Factor out the fact that women generally tend to be carrying children with them, factor out the bathroom gossip during a trip to the loo with girlfriends, simply consider the mere act of going number 1: Men can sidle up to a urinal, easy in, easy out; women have to deal with additional frictional time of taking care of possibly gross toilets, using toilet cover seats, using toilet paper... Sure, women make things into a production, but this is an important hygeinic production. And while it's nice that some men will stand watch for women to use their restrooms and some Broadway theaters will turn the men's rooms, but it's not that same.
Dr. Karl's Queueing Theory agrees that a 2 to 1 ratio of women's to men's toilets is best.
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The "the most blatant, demeaning, and visible forms of gender discrimination in our society" line is such hyperbole. Are these city council members saying they can't think of at least one form of gender discrimination that is more demeaning? Good cause, bad argument. Tone down the exaggerations.
Maybe Yvette and Bill can talk to Yankee Stadium and Irving Plaza (and so many others). Seems men have to leave the bags at bag check while women can take in purses, bags, whatever. You tell me, Yvette and Bill, what's the difference between my bag and a woman's bag? One is generally called a purse, one isn't. Wouldn't be so bad if Yankee Stadium's bag check wasn't at the bowling alley across the street.
it's not a purse! it's a european carry all!!
I read somewhere that it takes women six times as long as men to make a round-trip to a public restroom to pee. Despite not knowing the source of this information, I have no doubt that it's true.
Shouldn't there then be six women's rooms for every one men's room?
Yes, there's melodrama involved with the proposal, but what can you expect from your Brooklyn Council People?
As for the man purses, I mean, bags, that will be next on their agenda.
I love the Google ads being served to the right. "Porta Kleen," "Tear down the Outhouse," "Portable Toilet Rentals." Too funny!
This is one of the only times I can think of that Texas (!) is ahead of NY in rights for women. But maybe Texas women are especially motivated by this issue.
Anyway, it was much better for the ladies, line-wise, when I lived there.
And just so you know, the official term for this struggle is "potty parity." Carry on.
It depends on the place as well. As any male NY Yankee fan can attest, by the 7th inning, men are guaranteed to be waiting on line for the bathroom.
all this whining over waiting in line? don't all clubs make dudes wait in line as they let birds breeze right in? blatant sexism!!
or in my office, girls wearing tank tops and skirts to work when i have to wear a tie and slacks. that really sucks.
I know a bunch of peeps lobbying to make all bathrooms unisex. That could work!
i keep wondering why we need laws to do the right thing. cell phones are illegal in theatres - that doesn't keep people from leaving them on. do we really need a law to get more women's rooms? if so, that makes me sad, but a lot of things make me sad, like a cell phone going off during vanessa redgrave's last speech in a 4 and half hour long play. . .that was sad and i assure you, the offender was not arrested.
Most building codes are quite explicit in requiring more fixtures for women's rooms than men's and they are based on formulas related to ocupancy, as defined in BOCA (the national standard) etc. There are also numerous ADA requirements for the handicaped or disabled. The problem is that these codes apply to new buildings or buildings that are being substaintially renovated. So dont hold your breath for Yankees Stadium to get any better. But you will notice that most modern facilities provide a better experience for women. And be careful with the sexist women and babies thing- all men's rooms are required to have baby changing tables as well. But as noted, it all comes down to a few wonderful inventions that win the day for guys- zippers and urinals. One thing I would like to ask the ladies- what are your feelings on Turkish-style toilets (ie. hole in the ground? They avoid the sitting problem (which I understand is a big issue and avoided at all costs by some- to the resulting displeasure of those following). Just a note- I am not fixated with bathrooms- just an architect.
I never gave much of a consideration about the the parity of women's toilets to men's. I just wish some guys' mommies had taught them to RAISE THE SEAT, even in a men's room!
I think to raise public consciousness on potty parity, Queens is going to hold some public forums on the issue.
The first will be in Flushing.
Well, I think we need more stalls in women's room no doubt but I think given the psychological differences in men and women, i think women should have discretionary access to men's facilities. In other words, if a woman determines a need, either for her or someone she is careing for, to enter a men's room then she should have that right. women do not care about seeing guys that much. I think they could handle that. Men wouldn't mind so much either. We need a proposition to vote that gives women the right to enter a men's room if there is a need. I think women are able to determine that themselves.
This is another problem I find with restrooms. I have a question about bathroom laws. I thought that every business for public use was supposed to, by law, have a bathroom open to the public. I went into a gas station on a long trip and argued with the guy behind the counter because he said their bathroom wasn't for public use. I told him that, that was against the law and he had to let a customer use it. He just laughed at me and said no, not at all, and to go somewhere else. This has happened to me and others before at stores, & other places. It's just ridiculous!
I believe that every business that the public uses should have an open bathroom for all. I think that it's a right and an huge health issue, as some people have medical emergencies. If anyone could please respond and let me know if it is a law in NY State, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks, Lauren
They aren't restroom rights. Rights would be one stall per person. This bill wants more rights for one gender and less for another. Most importantly, it does'nt even call for more toilets for women: it calls for a ratio. The buildings could simply keep the same # of toilets in ladies rooms by reducing the # in men's rooms. Which does nothing to alleviate the situation. More political correctness out of control!
I agree this is discrimination. They should have a greater number of facilities for women than men because they take longer. That is my opinion. I feel sorry for those who ahve to wait on such long lines.
How big a problem do women consider this really? How often and how long do you have to wait in line on average? Is it all the time or just at crowded events? I can understand if everywhere women go they have to wait 10 minutes to pee it could be annoying but is it really that bad or are the lines more like an occasional 5 minute line at big events? I'm just curious as to the extent of the problem cause women don't seem to discuss it much. Are there any women who oppose this bill? If so why?
For several years I had some issues concerning men's restrooms and why many of them are not "private" including when the doors frequently swing open, females that are passing by (or standing there to try and communicate to someone in there) can see men in plain view using the restroom due to the way the urinals are built in front of the doors (and not the sinks or stalls). Recently I have been hearing of rumors of proposed legislation, which, if passed, would allow females to go into male restrooms in emergencies and long lines even while males are using them.
I found a website called restrooms.org, read some of the issues of women waiting in long lines to use restrooms and some even going into the men's room while men are in there. It should be a law that should be enforced because if a man went into the ladies room, he would be ticketed, fine, jailed, ten-to-twenty, end-of-story.
I have also read some sites about legislation for women to go in men's room even with men using them when the women's room lines are long. I think that would be wrong. Yes, men maybe facing the urinals doing their business but when most men see women coming in to invade their male privacy, they may do some thing to make these women feel uncomfortable: expose themselves to them, going to the closed stalls to peek at these women, do "strip shows," install video cameras in stalls (and producing these videos online), and other sexual harassment. Some perverted men will even be more creative and invent more ways to invade the privacy of women and embarrass them from coming in. Most men are not that mature no matter the location (even at a symphony orchestra concert. Many of those concerts serve alcoholic beverages beforehand). Women may even bring their little girls in there as well, which creates a situation for pedophilia. In other words, the entire situation can be a set up for men to get arrested for these indecent acts.
Sexual situations would arise in teenagers, which can result in the spread of diseases and pregnancy. The women's room in school might be empty but some girls may want to go to the men's room to harass, tease, or seduce the boys. These situations also breed and can increase immorality. A lot of females believe that men should not have privacy against females to pee but believe that women should have that privacy against men.
Girls are taught to be private with their genitalia. Boys are not (and they should be). That is not fair for females to invade the privacy of men in the restrooms. It is not fair for males to go into (occupied) female restrooms. Therefore, let's continue to keep them separated by law and ethics.
One solution is to build more women's restrooms. Another is to build those co-ed restrooms where there are floor-to-ceiling doors to separate each toilet. Maybe later once devices like the She-Pee" and the "P-Mate" become more popular among women, more women's restrooms could be built with urinals. These items should be introduced into American society once the female urinals are built, meaning that those companies should give them our free for the first several months before selling them in dispensers. Women should sacrifice privacy if they want to zip in and out restrooms equipped with urinals.
Oh, the thing about restroom doors especially at stadiums where the men's room door is open and they can be seen urinating, these restrooms should be rebuilt. Those sinks (and even stalls) are hidden away from public view but the urinals with the men using them aren't. The men's rooms should be built with some type of barrier to shield outside view of women passing by (or women at the door sticking their heads in calling for their little boys to hurry up). Women and girls should not be allowed to watch men and boys pee. We don't get to watch females pee. Maybe this is an issue that the ACLU should take up.
As for co-ed bathroom design, I think that when you walk in the first thing you should see are the sinks. Next you should see the toilet stalls where men and women use at any time. The last thing on the other side of the stalls should be the urinals since men are practically exposed when using them. Women would not have to walk that far in that co-ed restroom.
That restroom in Costa Rica is gross having the sink in between two urinals where women (and girls) would have a "free show" to see men (and boys) pee. There are no males watching females pee.
And if there comes a time when females are using devices such at P-Mate and She-Pee so that they can use urinals next to men, it is unfair for males to be exposed and the females covered with those devices. Men deserve privacy when they pee just as women deserve privacy.
Okay, here is a great solution on expanding women’s restrooms in concert halls, movie theaters, stadiums, and other large venues where so many of them have to wait in long lines. In one, two or three of these major cities, one of those venues should rebuild the ladies’ room. Take those doggone couches and lounge chairs out of that area and build plumbing there. Install and wall or two full of urinals like in the men’s rooms. Let them have the divider between urinals (not latch doors like stalls).
After reading numerous articles about women can pee standing up (with and without any devices) and how many have done so is some surveys that indicate that over 80 percent have used men’s urinals, this is an opportunity to put it to the test. Take a crowded venue. It’s intermission, halftime, or the seventh inning stretch. A lot of women are standing in line with their bladders about to explode. If the women’s room have a wall of urinals and the toilet stalls are full while they are waiting, the power of suggestion (empty urinals = no waiting) will make women go to those urinals in this dire emergency and use them. The lines go down immediately. Those that don’t want to use the urinals can wait on the toilet stalls.
As more venues rebuild women’s restrooms and install more urinals, more women will know that they are available and can plan their outings accordingly. They can practice peeing standing up at home in the shower or bathtub. The female-oriented television channels and magazines can let women know that there is a solution. Women can insist on having urinals installed by petition, e-mail messages, to building contractors, owners of public establishments, “Potty Parity” legislation, and so on. Take a quote from a baseball story: “Build them and they will use them.” Now let’s see women using urinals in the movies like they show men using them.